Creation: 6 days or billions of years... or both?

[quantumfaith]

Modern science really doesn't say that, but they wish they could.
Order never arises out of chaos.
If I were to take my watch, smash it against the wall so that it falls into hundreds of little pieces; how long would I have to stand over that mess of little watch pieces before they all came together and made a perfectly working watch again?
Would it ever happen?
But that is what the Big Bang "theory" teaches.

Out of this chaotic bang we suddenly have perfectly ordered solar systems, galaxies, etc., all moving in precise positions. It is impossible that a chaotic bang would produce that. How did the earth get so green with a perfect atmosphere for life to exist on it--the exact distance away from the sun to be the right temperature, rotating at the right speed, and revolves around the sun at just the right speed. Everything was "created" just perfect. Order doesn't come from chaos.

I am not sure you really understand the 2nd law of thermodynamics and entropy. The reality of the big bang was, from the perspective of the atheist oriented science unfortunate, because the discovery of a beginning then gave rise to (in their eyes) the necessity of a beginner. Since the solid reasoning of the BB, the hard core agenda driven cosmologists have for decades been working on mathematical and physical models incorporating the BB, but without the need for a beginner. At this point, I am grateful for the great and accomplished christian philosophical thinkers like William Lane Craig.

The "2nd law" can be locally and temporally averted by the introduction of energy into a system....but by physical laws this does create entropy elsewhere, such as in the production of heat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3yF105RGW8

 

[Judith]

Modern science really doesn't say that, but they wish they could.
Order never arises out of chaos.
If I were to take my watch, smash it against the wall so that it falls into hundreds of little pieces; how long would I have to stand over that mess of little watch pieces before they all came together and made a perfectly working watch again?
Would it ever happen?
But that is what the Big Bang "theory" teaches.

Out of this chaotic bang we suddenly have perfectly ordered solar systems, galaxies, etc., all moving in precise positions. It is impossible that a chaotic bang would produce that. How did the earth get so green with a perfect atmosphere for life to exist on it--the exact distance away from the sun to be the right temperature, rotating at the right speed, and revolves around the sun at just the right speed. Everything was "created" just perfect. Order doesn't come from chaos.

I certainly agree. In fact anyone who holds to any kind of big bang at creation cannot possiby believe the creation account. To hold to some sort of big bang and claim to hold to the creation account at the same time (to explain how it happened) one would have to hold to 6 big bangs, not one. Each day of creation would be another big bang as everything was not created at one time.

Now that being said I believe in a big bang, but it has not happened yet. 2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise (big Bang), and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Simply put at creation God spoke and things formed from nothing. Nothing does not explode into everything. At the end, everything will explode into nothing (big Bang).

 

[quantumfaith]

Modern science really doesn't say that, but they wish they could.
Order never arises out of chaos.
If I were to take my watch, smash it against the wall so that it falls into hundreds of little pieces; how long would I have to stand over that mess of little watch pieces before they all came together and made a perfectly working watch again?
Would it ever happen?
But that is what the Big Bang "theory" teaches.

Out of this chaotic bang we suddenly have perfectly ordered solar systems, galaxies, etc., all moving in precise positions. It is impossible that a chaotic bang would produce that. How did the earth get so green with a perfect atmosphere for life to exist on it--the exact distance away from the sun to be the right temperature, rotating at the right speed, and revolves around the sun at just the right speed. Everything was "created" just perfect. Order doesn't come from chaos.

As I read again what you wrote, I think you might be making a reference to the teleological argument and Anthropic Principle (whether you are, or intentionally are, I am not sure) the following is a great explanation and conclusion regarding this principle by WLC.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-teleological-argument-and-the-anthropic-principle

 

[beameup]

I have a DVD entitled "Journey Toward Creation" by astronomer Hugh Ross that is quite good at explaining the anthropic principle.

http://shop.reasons.org/Journey-Toward-Creation-p/d0607.htm

 

[Winman]

I certainly agree. In fact anyone who holds to any kind of big bang at creation cannot possiby believe the creation account. To hold to some sort of big bang and claim to hold to the creation account at the same time (to explain how it happened) one would have to hold to 6 big bangs, not one. Each day of creation would be another big bang as everything was not created at one time.

Now that being said I believe in a big bang, but it has not happened yet. 2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise (big Bang), and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Simply put at creation God spoke and things formed from nothing. Nothing does not explode into everything. At the end, everything will explode into nothing (big Bang).

I am a young earth creationist, and I believe God created everything in 6 literal 24 hour long days, days just as long as we have now.

Nevertheless, the scriptures repeatedly say God stretched out the heavens, which basically agrees with the Big Bang theory.

The universe did expand at creation whether you like it or not. It is what the word of God says.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not sure you really understand the 2nd law of thermodynamics and entropy. The reality of the big bang was, from the perspective of the atheist oriented science unfortunate, because the discovery of a beginning then gave rise to (in their eyes) the necessity of a beginner. Since the solid reasoning of the BB, the hard core agenda driven cosmologists have for decades been working on mathematical and physical models incorporating the BB, but without the need for a beginner. At this point, I am grateful for the great and accomplished christian philosophical thinkers like William Lane Craig.

The "2nd law" can be locally and temporally averted by the introduction of energy into a system....but by physical laws this does create entropy elsewhere, such as in the production of heat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3yF105RGW8

problem is that there is no model to account for from total chaos as postulated from big bang , to a state of structure and order!

also, still stuck with where and how did all the UNiverse get formed, and then placed into a minute size of matter, and reformed again?

Almost like a steady state.eternal universe, with differring cycles to it!

 

[quantumfaith]

problem is that there is no model to account for from total chaos as postulated from big bang , to a state of structure and order!

also, still stuck with where and how did all the UNiverse get formed, and then placed into a minute size of matter, and reformed again?

Almost like a steady state.eternal universe, with differring cycles to it!

It "got formed" (IMHO) as a result of the "fiat" of God. I don't think you have a solid grasp on science and cosmology. I know you are confident with your position(s)....I am not "knocking" that, just don't share all the details that you do.

 

[Yeshua1]

It "got formed" (IMHO) as a result of the "fiat" of God. I don't think you have a solid grasp on science and cosmology. I know you are confident with your position(s)....I am not "knocking" that, just don't share all the details that you do.

you are stating here that God caused the original state of the current Universe as that head of a pin, correct?

 

[quantumfaith]

you are stating here that God caused the original state of the current Universe as that head of a pin, correct?

Sorry, I do not understand you.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sorry, I do not understand you.

God would have used the "Big Bang" from your perspective to create the Universe as we now see it, and he placed the original matter that is thuis Universe into that size of a "head of a pin?"

 

[quantumfaith]

God would have used the "Big Bang" from your perspective to create the Universe as we now see it, and he placed the original matter that is thuis Universe into that size of a "head of a pin?"

Well, I don't know with certainty, but yes, I believe it was HIS spoken word that resulted in what cosmologists refer to as the Big Bang. His "fiat" that said "let it be" and it was.....and it continues.

 

[Judith]

The big bang has not happened yet, but it will.

 

[quantumfaith]

The big bang has not happened yet, but it will.

Isn't it great to live in the good old USA. Unfortunately the NSA is probably listening. The Big Bang did happen, or something very much like it. I am grateful for the discovery, it was one moment of scientific thought that forced the agnostics and atheists in science (those with agendas) back on their heels. It was, I am sure you know, and unexpected principle discovered by Arno and Penzias. (CMB) which was later described as the background radiation of the BB, I like to think of it as the creation event.

 

[Fred's Wife]

The big bang has not happened yet, but it will.

This is the future "big bang":

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[quantumfaith]

This is the future "big bang":

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[beameup]

This is the future "big bang":

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

That's the end of the Millennium and before the Great White Throne judgment.
There is more than one "day of the Lord".