Credibility without Accountability?

[thessalonian]

"Catechisms"

AdaptedMyGod, what is a Catechisms? I only know of one Catechism which contains the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Lorelei,

Infallbility of the Pope is quite well defined in the documents of Vatican I. Why is it that we can't come up with definitions for our beliefs. After all, you guys changed the definitoin of TULIP. Last I checked they were those pretty little flowers that push up through the ground in the spring.

 

[thessalonian]

Lorelei

"I can prove that they practice sex with minors regardless of what they "teach" about it. That is the point, what is this a church that says do I say, not as I do?

Once again nothing but venom.
Show me the numbers that say everyone is doing it. The only resonable statistics (non-Catholic) that I have heard are less than 2% of the clergy has been involved. Did you know that in the general populatoin (likely in Baptist homes) there is a 7% rate of child molestation. The plain and simple fact is that the vast majority (98%) of Catholic priests and Bishops have not been involved in this behavior and you call them guilty. Do you know something. I have seen statistics that at least 10% of Baptist pastors have cheated on their wives. Yet I bet every one has preached against adultery.

Again, your argument is based upon our imperfections which we never claimed to be without. "

No dear, I am not argueing my arguement. What goes right over your head is that I am showing you how foolish your argement is. My arguement is that scandal is in every denomination and it has nothing to do with the truth or error of the denominations doctrines. In Israel, the highest leaders were involved in scandalous behavior. Yet Judaism was true. And noone has ever said that the Catholic Church thinks all its priest and people are perfect. The sacrement of confession would be rather contradictory then wouldn't it? Perhaps if you put more thought than venom in to this we might have a meaningful dialogue. But up to this point it has been nothing but attack and hate from you. I will pray for you.

Blessings

 

[DanPC]

"There are only no contradictions if you accept the chruches [sic] interpretation of them, otherwise you will find many."

So no one could possibly agree with the Church of their own free will? No one could come to the same conclusions?

 

[Ps104_33]

The Roman Catholic says:

"The Church is infallible because the Scriptures testify that she is so, and the Scriptures testify this because the Church infallibly declares that such is their meaning."

Doesnt every Catholic use their own private judgement when they decided to submit to the Church of Rome? Who told you that the Magesterium of the Roman Catholic Church is infallible?

"The Church is infallible because the Scriptures testify that she is so, and the Scriptures testify this because the Church infallibly declares that such is their meaning."

And round and round we go.

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by DanPC:
So no one could possibly agree with the Church of their own free will? No one could come to the same conclusions?

Do you have a choice not to?

~Lorelei

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by show me:
Again, Lorelei:

What do you think Catholics mean when they speak of papal infallibility?? I know what the word infallible means. You know what the word means. Now, what is papal infallibility???

Read the quote again, is the last statement about the catholic doctrine true or false?

~Lorelei

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by thessalonian:
you guys changed the definitoin of TULIP. Last I checked they were those pretty little flowers that push up through the ground in the spring.

That's what it still means to me to, but obviously you aren't listening to anything I have to say since you keep trying to use anti-Calvinistic arguements with a person who despises Calvinistic doctrines.

I suggest if you don't want to hear how some Baptists believe that catholicism is a false doctrine then you might not want to belong to a baptist board.

~Lorelei

 

[thessalonian]

"That's what it still means to me to, but obviously you aren't listening to anything I have to say since you keep trying to use anti-Calvinistic arguements with a person who despises Calvinistic doctrines."

Read up on Papal infallibility in some of the other posts. I have no time for answering someone who will not listen to a Cathoilc about what Catholicism teaches. I reject what you say because it is false and distored with regard to Catholicism. Plain and simple. You can think you know better than me all you want. It ain't so. As for despising Calvanist doctrines, then why do so many Baptist Churches embrace them and why are you Baptist? You must not despise them that bad.

"I suggest if you don't want to hear how some Baptists believe that catholicism is a false doctrine then you might not want to belong to a baptist board."

No, I love it here. I like hearing the distortions about my faith because I can strip all credibility about what the Catholic Church teaches from people such as yourself. If your not making people mad, your not making them think I always say.

Blessings Lorelei. It's been nice chattings.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Well I'm not mad, and I think that you can't rightly divide even the most basic scriputure.

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by thessalonian:
Read up on Papal infallibility in some of the other posts. I have no time for answering someone who will not listen to a Cathoilc about what Catholicism teaches.

This is exactly my point. You can only understand infallibility if you know how the catholic church defines it. It's not what things mean, it's what the church "teaches" about what things really mean. You just supported my point yet again.

Originally posted by thessalonian:

It ain't so. As for despising Calvanist doctrines, then why do so many Baptist Churches embrace them and why are you Baptist? You must not despise them that bad.

Let me use your own argument against you. If this amazes you, it is obvious that you know nothing about Baptists.

Originally posted by thessalonian:
No, I love it here. I like hearing the distortions about my faith because I can strip all credibility about what the Catholic Church teaches from people such as yourself.

You have simply affirmed and established my point. If catholics can't answer the questions, they point the finger the other way. That has indeed stripped the credibility away from the catholic church.

~Lorelei

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Lorelei:

This is exactly my point. You can only understand infallibility if you know how the catholic church defines it. It's not what things mean, it's what the church "teaches" about what things really mean. You just supported my point yet again.

It's called context.

If you want to talk about infallibilty as it applies to the Catholic Church then it is only intellectually honest to first understand what the Church means by infallibilty when it claims infallibility.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

If the church claims infallabilty means anything but infallability, then they need a different word.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
You have simply affirmed and established my point. If catholics can't answer the questions, they point the finger the other way. That has indeed stripped the credibility away from the catholic church.

His point is that you misprepesent Catholic teaching and doctrine.

Before that teaching or doctrine can be discussed it is first necessary to correct your misunderstanding.

After there is mutual understanding as to the subject matter, only then can there be honest discussion.

When your erroneous understanding is pointed out to you, as a means of furthering the discussion, you take that as some sort of proof that your arguement is right and that Catholics can not defend it.

Shall I offer and example for you?

"Baptist's believe in once saved only saved. They believe that once they are saved they can sin all they want."

Please, defend for me your doctrine that you can sin all you want after you are saved.

 

[Acts 1:8]

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

Romans 6:
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

1 John 3:6
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by AdoptedByGod:
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

Romans 6:
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

1 John 3:6
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

So then you are saying if you are saved you will never sin.

Wait, Scripture says that all have sinned.

Are you making a liar of God?

And which is it? Baptist's can sin all they want or Baptist's never sin?

Why do Baptist's keep changing their doctrine?

[ February 06, 2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: trying2understand ]

 

[Acts 1:8]

I understand the point you are trying to make, but God's Word makes a few of its own.

Christ said "depart from me, I never knew you" not depart from me, I knew you at one point but then you left the faith.

Instead God's Word says:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

This is rock solid proof that you are SAVED or you are NOT. Once you are born again,

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."
1 John 3:9


Hopefully this will provide a good example of how to answer a post.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by AdoptedByGod:
I understand the point you are trying to make, but God's Word makes a few of its own.

Christ said "depart from me, I never knew you" not depart from me, I knew you at one point but then you left the faith.

Instead God's Word says:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

This is rock solid proof that you are SAVED or you are NOT. Once you are born again,

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."
1 John 3:9


Hopefully this will provide a good example of how to answer a post.

So since you are saved you never sin?

That's interesting.

Inspite of Scripture saying that all fall short, you think that you never sin?

Any other sinless Baptist's on the board?

 

[Acts 1:8]

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."
1 John 3:9

God's Word speaks clearly.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by AdoptedByGod:
"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."
1 John 3:9

God's Word speaks clearly.

Be direct. Tell me that you never sin.

This is very eye opening.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

If you really want to sin, perhaps you aren't ssaved.

The Holy Spirit is there to guide us away from sin. Some listen, some don't, like the message to Israel says....

Hosea 11:3 I taught Ephraim also to go, taking them by their arms; but they knew not that I healed them.

Also, the parable of the ten lepers....only one thanked him, but the rest were still healed. He didn't "unheal" them when they showed themselves unworthy.

OSAS is a difficult thing to grasp, but the Bible does support it.