Criticizing Roman Catholicism

[Matt Black]

So your saying that the RCC gets a pass because Elvis liked the birds? And you consider that rational?

Now where did I say that? I was questioning your singling out of Catholicism was this particular criticism when it is self-evident that all churches suffer from this malaise. That is indeed rational.

 

[DHK]

There is a huge disconnect here that has nothing to do with the sacraments. It is clear from your statement that you believe in "once saved always saved", "eternal security of the believer" or whatever label you choose to hang on this doctrine. If that doctrine were indeed true (and it is not), then the need for the sacraments is mitigated. However, the Bible teaches that one can fall from grace and lose his salvation after being saved. Yes, I know you disagree but just try to see it from my point of view and when you do the sacraments will make a lot more sense.

Of course they make sense anyway if you just take the scripture I cited at face value. In order to reject the sacraments you must reject major portions of scripture.

Incidentally, we are not complete in Christ without baptism, which is the sacramental portal of entry into fellowship with Christ.

When I was saved, I was saved from sin, from a sinful and wicked world and its lifestyle, and to eternal life and forgiveness of sins in Christ. IOW, I trusted Christ as my Savior and my life changed. I never heard of the doctrine of eternal security or OSAS until three years later when I went to Bible College. I wasn't saved through a Baptist church. However, when I was saved I was immediately shown how one can "be assured of their salvation." The Bible says we can. Having an assurance of one's salvation is a wonderful thing. Later on I came to know that "being assured of one's salvation" is basically the same as "eternal security."

If Christ gave me eternal life then it is eternal. If it stopped at any time then it wouldn't be eternal, but temporary, and Christ would be a liar.

There are no sacraments in the Bible, but as has been rightly pointed out, only ordinances--two of them--baptism and the Lord's Table. Neither one of them are means of grace, but commands to be kept.
I come from a Catholic background and I see the folly of sacraments and sacramental grace. It is not in the Bible or taught in the Bible. In fact that type of teaching is contrary to Biblical teaching. It is deeply rooted in a works-based salvation--a message that Paul called "accursed." For that very reason I left the RCC. Those who taught its message were accursed of God (Gal.1:8). I would rather follow the Bible instead.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

When I was saved, I was saved from sin, from a sinful and wicked world and its lifestyle, and to eternal life and forgiveness of sins in Christ. IOW, I trusted Christ as my Savior and my life changed. I never heard of the doctrine of eternal security or OSAS until three years later when I went to Bible College. I wasn't saved through a Baptist church. However, when I was saved I was immediately shown how one can "be assured of their salvation." The Bible says we can. Having an assurance of one's salvation is a wonderful thing. Later on I came to know that "being assured of one's salvation" is basically the same as "eternal security."

If Christ gave me eternal life then it is eternal. If it stopped at any time then it wouldn't be eternal, but temporary, and Christ would be a liar.

There are no sacraments in the Bible, but as has been rightly pointed out, only ordinances--two of them--baptism and the Lord's Table. Neither one of them are means of grace, but commands to be kept.
I come from a Catholic background and I see the folly of sacraments and sacramental grace. It is not in the Bible or taught in the Bible. In fact that type of teaching is contrary to Biblical teaching. It is deeply rooted in a works-based salvation--a message that Paul called "accursed." For that very reason I left the RCC. Those who taught its message were accursed of God (Gal.1:8). I would rather follow the Bible instead.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: