Cruel and unjust God?

[Aaron]

That God creates damned children, infected with a disease he subsequently hates them for possessing, and then tortures them forever because, in his "Sovereignty" he decided that that is what he wants to do with them.

It's the most demonic, stupid and evil doctrine I can conceive of.

You're right to say you conceive of that stupidity, because no Calvinist asserts such a thing.

 

[Aaron]

You define it as a genetic disease present in a human male's spermatazoa.

Not sure what Calvinists you're reading, but there is more factual truth in the noise of our farts than in the fables you're posting.

 

[canadyjd]

Not sure what Calvinists you're reading, but there is more factual truth in the noise of our farts than in the fables you're posting.

You have either a high view of your flatulence or a low view of the arguments being presented.

Man, at his best, is a mere breath (puff of air), so maybe you are right either way. lol

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

Spurgeon was wrong.
That idea is unbiblical.

So Calvin here was right, that the road to hell paved by bodies of new born?

 

[Yeshua1]

2 questions then:

1. So is fallen man able to to recognize his own sinfulness, but unwilling to believe the gospel?
2. Was it not God that so constituted the fallen human race in Adam as to render it unwilling (as opposed to unable)?

Did Adam choose willing to sin and cause all of us to fall in Him?

 

[Yeshua1]

Did God create sin?
Is God responsible for Adam's rebellion and the corruption that happened due to sin?
Should God have killed off Adam and Eve with no offspring and recreated two new perfect humans?
HoS, since you seem to think you are more wise than God, tell us how God ought to have done things so that your perfect scenario would play out exactly as you planned.

Your judgment of God is noted by us all.

Guess that some here understand this all better then God Himself does, eh?

 

[Yeshua1]

You're right to say you conceive of that stupidity, because no Calvinist asserts such a thing.

He confuses me on this issue, as I stated that agreed with Spurgeon that no babies will be damned by god, and he said that was stupid? So which is it, some babies damned, or none, as he dislikes both views it seems!

 

[AustinC]

HoS is a full on Pelagian. Thus he will hate any classical theology that views humankind as born in corruption.

 

[George Antonios]

Did Adam choose willing to sin and cause all of us to fall in Him?

The point is not that here. The point is, once Adam sinned, was it not God that determined the extent of the effects of the corruption? Was it not God that so constituted FALLEN man as to be unable/unwilling to believe?

 

[George Antonios]

You're right to say you conceive of that stupidity, because no Calvinist asserts such a thing.

Of course they do. But only a fraction of them are consistent enough or bold enough to assert it out loud, the imperfect nature of his illustration notwithstanding.

 

[Yeshua1]

The point is not that here. The point is, once Adam sinned, was it not God that determined the extent of the effects of the corruption? Was it not God that so constituted FALLEN man as to be unable/unwilling to believe?

Is not God honoring though what they desire to do?

 

[AustinC]

The point is not that here. The point is, once Adam sinned, was it not God that determined the extent of the effects of the corruption? Was it not God that so constituted FALLEN man as to be unable/unwilling to believe?

No, man's own depraved thoughts and actions determine the extent of the effects of that corruption. Man is entirely to blame.

No, man in his own rebellion, made himself unable/unwilling to believe. Man is entirely to blame.

It amazes me that you are so quick to blame God for man's wickedness.

You show your arrogance.

But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
~ Romans 9:20

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
~ Romans 1:21-25

 

[Yeshua1]

No, man's own depraved thoughts and actions determine the extent of the effects of that corruption. Man is entirely to blame.

No, man in his own rebellion, made himself unable/unwilling to believe. Man is entirely to blame.

It amazes me that you are so quick to blame God for man's wickedness.

You show your arrogance.

But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
~ Romans 9:20

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
~ Romans 1:21-25

Just seems that the unspoken concern among many non cals would be the issue of "fairness"

 

[George Antonios]

Is not God honoring though what they desire to do?

Ok, I quit.

 

[George Antonios]

No, man's own depraved thoughts and actions determine the extent of the effects of that corruption. Man is entirely to blame.

No, man in his own rebellion, made himself unable/unwilling to believe. Man is entirely to blame.

It amazes me that you are so quick to blame God for man's wickedness.

You show your arrogance.

But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
~ Romans 9:20

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
~ Romans 1:21-25

I quit.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

You're right to say you conceive of that stupidity, because no Calvinist asserts such a thing.

Yes, they assert almost exactly that.
Either educate yourself, or stop posting.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Not sure what Calvinists you're reading, but there is more factual truth in the noise of our farts than in the fables you're posting.

No, despite your crudeness....
I'm quite accurate.
Stop boring people with your pithy quips and quotes.
They were never as charming as you thought they were,

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Did Adam choose willing to sin and cause all of us to fall in Him?

1.) Adam indeed chose.
2.) Adam "caused" us to do nothing....except to die
3.) We all "die" because of Adam
4.) Even Jesus "died"
5.) Jesus did NOT escape the fate of Adam..........he was the second Adam
6.) But, Jesus still died, because he was a man, like all other men.
7.) But, Jesus was bodily resurrected.............
8.) The bodily resurrection is the first-fruits of our hope.....in fact, it's the hope of all of God's creation:
Not the Penal Substitution

The resurrection is the end of the passion story, and it's what gives the entire creation hope........
Not just man, but the entire planet.

Calvinists ignore about 50% of the gospel because they think the resurrection is a liner-note.

Christ's death means nothing if he wasn't a man (As Calvinism asserts)
Christ's death is the sole means of Salvation for mankind and the Resurrection means nothing (As Calvinism asserts).

Calvinism is so ignorant of the scope of the gospel that it is hardly worth real scholarly debate.
Calvinism thinks the gospel is solely concerned about white people "getting saved".
It's the most myopic world-view imaginable.

 

[Aaron]

Yes, they assert almost exactly that.
Either educate yourself, or stop posting.

Put up or shut up. Let's see the assertions.

 

[AustinC]

1.) Adam indeed chose.
2.) Adam "caused" us to do nothing....except to die
3.) We all "die" because of Adam
4.) Even Jesus "died"
5.) Jesus did NOT escape the fate of Adam..........he was the second Adam
6.) But, Jesus still died, because he was a man, like all other men.
7.) But, Jesus was bodily resurrected.............
8.) The bodily resurrection is the first-fruits of our hope.....in fact, it's the hope of all of God's creation:
Not the Penal Substitution

Wait!What?

Jesus did NOT escape the fate of Adam..........he was the second Adam

1) Adam received a curse for breaking covenant with God. Did Jesus break covenant with God?
You have it wrong. Jesus never experienced Adam's fate. If he had, he would not have been able to redeem sinners.
2) Jesus chose his fate, which was an obedient act of penal sacrifice upon the cross to redeem all those whom the Father gave him to redeem. He willingly died and endured the cross. He had all authority to choose otherwise.
3) You seem to openly deny the deity of Christ Jesus, making him just another man like Adam.
4) The penal substitution is the paid in full sacrifice for all whom the Father has given. The resurrection is proof that Jesus is who he always claimed, God incarnate.

HoS, your theology has been historically condemned, from your Pelagian position to your teaching on the deity of Christ, to your rejection of penal substitution. I doubt, very much, that you have anything to do with a Baptist Church.