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Cruel and unjust God?
- Thread starter AustinC
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
Disagree.
Nope. God chose to use believers as ambassadors, and they have not made the gospel of Christ presentation to everyone who has ever lived. Further, some who were exposed to the gospel were, due to the hardness of their heart, unable to understand it, i.e. the first soil of Matthew 13.
And finally God sometimes in scripture, hardened the hearts of individuals to carry out His purpose. Romans 11 for example.
However, to claim that the lost are universally unable to understand and respond affirmatively to the gospel is also false doctrine, as shown by the second, third and fourth soils of Matthew 13.
No.
That is, unless they are born condemned for the sins of their forefathers before they ever drew breath.
If, however, they are only condemned for their own rebellion God is under no obligation to save anyone.
Do you believe humans are born perfect, like Jesus, but then sin later due to society teaching them to sin?
I believe they become sinners when they sin.
I don't believe they are born condemned by the sins of Adam.
I believe Jesus was a human born like all other humans in respect to this question. I believe Jesus was not a sinner because Jesus never sinned.
Pelagianism is a heterodox Christian theological position which holds that the original sin did not taint human nature and that humans have the free will to achieve human perfection without divine grace. Pelagius (c. 355 – c. 420 AD), a British ascetic and philosopher, taught that God could not command believers to do the impossible, and therefore it must be possible to satisfy all divine commandments. He also taught that it was unjust to punish one person for the sins of another; therefore, infants are born blameless. Pelagius accepted no excuse for sinful behavior and taught that all Christians, regardless of their station in life, should live unimpeachable, sinless lives.
Pelagianism - Wikipedia.
If God was really that, would have provided and made salvation for NONE!
I know what Wikipedia says about "Pelagianism"....
I've known it for years.
I also don't care what Wikipedia says about "Pelagianism".
Pelagius wasn't even a "Pelagian". That term is tatamount to meaningless. Although it is obviously true that it is unjust to punish one person for the sins of another. God also clearly teaches that in his Holy Word, so I am in good company in that belief.
I've actually read Original works by Pelagius; Have you?
I didn't think so.
In fact, I know you haven't. Neither did R.C. Sproul, Philip Schaff, Lorrainne Boettner or any Calvinist legend you may worship.
None of them.......
None, ever read anything from Pelagius' own pen. I can know that, because his writings (other than the letter to Demetrias) weren't available when they coined the nonsensical cockamamie term "Pelagianism" I couldn't care less what they say. I certainly then, don't care what some fourth-hand flunky disciple of theirs posts on Wikipedia.
I simply believe the rather obvious point that it would be unjust for anyone to punish someone for the sins of another.
That includes God himself. Otherwise the term "just" means nothing.
God doesn't punish a son for the sins of the father either.
God is under no constraint to save anyone, but, he would be unjust to punish anyone for the sins of another.
You don't have to be a "Pelagian" to see that:
You merely have to be sane.
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How did he view the effects of the Fall ?
Would be Unjust to have Universalism , as how would there by justice and judgement upon sinners?
Maybe.
It depends on what form of Universalism one teaches.
There are a million versions of it, some of which involve everyone who doesn't submit in this life paying a price for their sins before being eventually drawn to salvation ultimately.
It's not Biblical, but it could satisfy the terms of "justice".
I am none of them, so, I'll let them speak for themselves.
Man died.
Just like the Bible says they would.
They still die.
Even Jesus died because he no more escaped the results of "the fall" than any other man.
Docetism is heresy. I will have no part of it, nor any Theological system which demands it.
Do you believe you were saved because of "justness"?
You have read his extant Latin writings?
Since Pelagius is declared a heretic and his writings have been condemned by the Roman church, Coptic church, Eastern church and Protestant church, I find it interesting that you promote his beliefs as though the Bible actually supports his beliefs.
You make the cross of Christ unnecessary, thus I have nothing more to say to you regarding this subject. You have condemned yourself and thus there is no need for me to go any further. Good day.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
van
Thats everyone by nature sir.
Thats everyone by nature sir.
Here is our cruel and unjust God in action?
Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
You and I would not even exist if Noah did not find grace in Gods eyes!... Brother Glen
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It's their only argument.
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