all after Adam inherited a sin nature, except for jesus due to His Virgin Birth!
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Cruel and unjust God?
- Thread starter AustinC
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Ever and anon the cry of the noncalvinist is, Why doth He yet find fault?
I mean, it's almost like you guys have never read the bible. You keep raising the same objections that Paul said you would raise to God's sovereignty over and over seemingly oblivious to his answers to your carnal notions of justice.
You: "You're ascribing unrighteousness to God!"
Peanut gallery: Well said!
Paul: LOL. No I'm not. God Himself said it. "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh: "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may demonstrate my power in you, and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth." So then, God has mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy, and he hardens whom he chooses to harden. Romans 9:15-18
You: "Then God in unjust to find fault!"
Peanut gallery: Hear! Hear!
Paul: Well now, that's a pile of virtue you're hauling to answer back to God. Careful of that stumbling stone there. Romans 9:19-33.
Peanut gallery: Well said!
Paul: LOL. No I'm not. God Himself said it. "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh: "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may demonstrate my power in you, and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth." So then, God has mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy, and he hardens whom he chooses to harden. Romans 9:15-18
You: "Then God in unjust to find fault!"
Peanut gallery: Hear! Hear!
Paul: Well now, that's a pile of virtue you're hauling to answer back to God. Careful of that stumbling stone there. Romans 9:19-33.
No, due to His deity.
Strannik
Member
Well, in this situation, in general, a lot depends on the person. 100% of his salvation depends on him. If he does not repent, and mend his ways. If he does not accept faith in Jesus Christ, then the Lord God will not have mercy on him, because such a person is simply unworthy of God's Mercy. The sinner simply rejected God's Mercy on his own.
So I see that the Calvinists are wrong in this matter.
Yes, and why would Jesus even command to preach the Gospel to all people, if God originally created a single handful and He does not even need to preach it to them. He has already condemned them to salvation without repentance, since repentance in this situation looks like a farce.
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Strannik
Member
I see that the Lord God created the universe beautiful and without blemish. Sin entered the universe later because of the pride of the fallen cherub.
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³¹ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was³¹ very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.Genesis 1:31
© Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
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¹² How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! ¹³ For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: ¹⁴ I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. ¹⁵ Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:12-15
© Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
Yeah...you are still not really worth responding to.
Also...do you realize that the phrase "ever and anon" means "ever and soon"?
Temporally speaking, while poetic....it's a non-sensical phrase:
"Ever and soon"...means nothing.
That's one of the reasons I kinda' tend to ignore you.
You think yourself quippy, (and your delivery is quite quippy) but, there's a patent ignorance of English language you're displaying with your favourite phrase.
It has robbed you of credibility for some years now.
That idea is non-sense.
It is un-biblical.
Also, it is arguably....heresy.
Truly, I would argue that it is an historically condemned heresy.
IF Jesus did not have the Virgin Birth, his humanity would have been tainted and had a sin nature!
ALL save for Him inherited a sin nature, and he bypassed the fall effecting Him by Virgin Birth!
Probably, and I'd love to discuss it with you.
I put your question in italics because that's what I'm keying in on.
I have a guess:
It was the Holy Spirit.
I would assert three things in answer to your question:
1.) I don't have to discover an answer to that question.....because I am not claiming to know the answer as to "how" Christ successfully lived without sin. I don't think God's word makes it abundantly clear.
2.) I believe if you read the gospels closely...you will find that the Holy Spirit was EXTREMELY active in the redemptive work of Christ.
I believe it was through the Holy Spirit that he cast out the demons from the maniac of Gadara.
Notice: When Christ was accused of consulting the power of "Baalzebub"...he didn't respond by saying: "No, I'm not really a human...I'm just God in a costume, and I have that kind of power because docetism is true, and I totally rock."
No, he told them that it would be the unforgivable sin to "blaspheme" the Holy Spirit.....a statement which not only immediately confirms the personality of the Holy Spirit, and the Deity of the Holy Spirit, but also affirms the true humanity of Christ.
Jesus didn't claim to have cast out those demons because he was God in a costume....
He attributed the empowerment to the work of the Holy Spirit.
3.) If the Holy Spirit was so active in the gospel work of Christ, it was probably his influence which helped him overcome the temptation of sin.
I believe if you read the gospels, the writers absolutely pepper the text with references to the Holy Spirit being conciously active in the life of Christ over and over. We tend to gloss over those references.....but the text is overwhelmed with such references.
I understand and appreciate your drive Theologically towards explaining the Universality of sin towards something like a "nature".....and the history behind it as an explanation.
We can't flush it all out here for now, but suffice it say.
i admit, I reject it actually, and wholeheartedly.
I didn't always.
While MAYBE there's something to it, the Scriptures (IMO) do not teach the idea sufficiently to accept it.
I hardly think you are out of your mind for thinking as you do....most modern fundamental Christians do think SOMETHING...SOMETHING....happened to mankind after the fall which rendered them predisposed towards sin....
I don't.
I think nothing has to have "happened" to man (or any of Adam's progeny) to render sin Universal.
I think we all would have made the same wrong choice.
I don't feel forced to seek an explanation.
It would be worthwhile and helpful.I won't belabour it anymore here, but someday in a thread maybe
I appreciate your wisdom on these subjects.
I don't always agree with you 100%...but you are a man of wisdom I.M.O.
God bless brother
ok.Yet here you are.
Archaic, actually, and a common idiom employed in classical English literature meaning "occasionally" without end, 'anon' also having the meaning of "again."
Oops. You just said you ignore me because you're illiterate.
You're fun.
"Ever and anon" means literally ever and soon.
It's just (after a decade of that)...starting to bore everyone.
Get another catchphrase.
It was charming for about 3 years.
Also...I know archaic English better than you.
It was never that common an English archaicism.
It existed...I'd heard it long before you made it an everyday catchphrase....but, it wasn't that common.
You've belabored it for over a decade....come up with something else.
I'm not calling your Theology wrong.......
I'm just saying, you aren't as clever as you think you are.
You are correct, in that it was used that way.....
But, not often, and it wasn't that common.
And "anon" still means "anon" i.e. "soon".
It just isn't that clever of you.
I have always known of the ancillary meaning of it.....so does everyone else.
It phased out of use for a reason.
It wasn't that useful a phrase.
Attempting to bring that phrase back does not make it more useful.
Only K.Y....thinks you clever for it.
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The incorruptible God cannot be tainted. His purity is because of His deity, not the body that was made for Him. If sin came through the flesh, then He could have taken sin through Mary.
Our 'life,' our spirit, comes from the breath that God breathed into Adam. That was not God's Spirit. And it isn't incorruptible. Neither immortal. It was corrupted (meaning decayed, something lost; as opposed to polluted, something added) And that something was life. It's not what Adam gives, it's what he cannot give.
Please provide Scripture for that assertion....
Denying the need of the Virgin Birth is heresy!
Jesus would have received from Mary his Mother a sinful human nature if there was no Virgin birth!
All have sinned in Adam,. and all are born with sinful natures who are normal born!
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