Dale Ratzlaff - Seventh-Day Adventist Kryptonite

[utilyan]

Actually, the theology of an Augustine, or of a Calvin in regards to Election and the so called Tulip theolgy were them in the scriptures themselves!

DID GOD SAY YOU WERE ELECT FACE TO FACE? YES OR NO?

That is a pretty easy question to answer. You keep tip-toeing around. Yes or NO?

 

[BobRyan]

God sent to us His apostles as the ones given His revelation to pass unto us, and there have been NO MORE since John passed!

So saith Yeshua1 regarding "what God is allowed to say once John died"... A great story and you are the source so you can say whatever you wish.

But I prefer the actual Bible

 

[Yeshua1]

So saith Yeshua1 regarding "what God is allowed to say once John died"... A great story and you are the source so you can say whatever you wish.

But I prefer the actual Bible

As do I, as i do not follow the theology of a false prophetess!

 

[Yeshua1]

So saith Yeshua1 regarding "what God is allowed to say once John died"... A great story and you are the source so you can say whatever you wish.

But I prefer the actual Bible

Who else, besides EW, would you see as having been a prophet unto the Church after John died?

 

[BobRyan]

Yeshua1 said: ↑
God sent to us His apostles as the ones given His revelation to pass unto us, and there have been NO MORE since John passed!

Who else, besides EW, would you see as having been a prophet unto the Church after John died?

If you knew anything about the history of the 1800's you would know that there is a list.

And if you did not resort to quoting yourself so often -- you would know that NO BIBLE TEXT says that once there are no prophets from Malachi to John... that this means "there can be no John the baptizer" or John the Revelator or Agabus, or Anna in the temple or Philips 4 daughters or all those at Corinth or ....

Less "quoting you" and more Bible please.

 

[Yeshua1]

If you knew anything about the history of the 1800's you would know that there is a list.

And if you did not resort to quoting yourself so often -- you would know that NO BIBLE TEXT says that once there are no prophets from Malachi to John... that this means "there can be no John the baptizer" or John the Revelator or Agabus, or Anna in the temple or Philips 4 daughters or all those at Corinth or ....

Less "quoting you" and more Bible please.

There were NO MORE Apostles/Prophets given to us by God after John died, period!

 

[thatbrian]

There were NO MORE Apostles/Prophets given to us by God after John died, period!

And why is that? It's because there is no need for them. The Son has come.

 

[BobRyan]

There were NO MORE Apostles/Prophets given to us by God after John died, period!

Watching you "quote you" is only considered 'authoritative' or "as good a scripture saying it" to someone who keeps a sufficient "distance" from scripture in the first place.

Give me the Bible "AND The Words IN the Bible" .. no need to keep watching you "quote you"

 

[BobRyan]

Who else, besides EW, would you see as having been a prophet unto the Church after John died?

That is a rabbit trail and we both know it. You are pursuing a line of argument that no Bible endorses. Period.

Which is why I refuse to list them for you.

 

[One Baptism]

And why is that? It's because there is no need for them. The Son has come.

Are you suggesting that 'prophethood' [the gift of prophecy] ceased when Jesus showed up and was born as a man, or was it at His baptism, His death, His burial, his resurrection, His ascension? Could you be more specific please, since as I read the scriptures [KJB], I see prophets before Jesus human life on earth, during Jesus human life on earth, after Jesus human life on earth, and all the way down to this very day:

Agabus - Acts 11:28, 21:10

Philips Four Daughters - Acts 21:9

Peter who saw vision - Acts 10

Paul who saw visions - Acts; 2 Corinthians 12:2

Church members:

Romans 12:6 KJB - Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;

Revelation 22:9 KJB - Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Joel 2:28 KJB - And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
​

We are still in the "last days" [the last 2 great cosmic week days with God, as per Psalms 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8, etc KJB, we are presently in the 6,000 years, coming upon the Great Sabbath ...]

and further in - Acts 19:6; 1 Corinthians 13:9, 14:1,5,24,31,37,39

and let us not forget John the Apostle - Revelation 1:1,4

What about those members in the Church who were Prophets and persecuted well into the dark ages and even at the very end of time?

Revelation 16:6 KJB - For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

Revelation 18:20 KJB - Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Revelation 18:24 KJB - And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.​

see also: Revelation 11:18, 16:6, 18:20,24

Surely the Christians had Prophets even in the early Church and in the latter:

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. Acts 11:26

And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch. Acts 11:27

Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. Acts 13:1

And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed [them]. Acts 15:32
​

For God hath set the Prophets in the Church:

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 1 Corinthians 12:28

[Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles? 1 Corinthians 12:29

Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 1 Corinthians 14:29

And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 1 Corinthians 14:32

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; Ephesians 2:20

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Ephesians 3:5

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Ephesians 4:11
​

And so that the Church would come behind in no Gift, including Prophets:

So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Corinthians 1:7

For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Ephesians 4:12

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Ephesians 4:13
​

Are these not the same prophets as before? Yes, Jesus is the chief Prophet tuno which all others point, as Hebrews 1:1-3 relates, but that doesn't say it ended prophets or prophecy, otherwise, what bother with John on the Isle of Patmos, since Hebrews was written before Revelation, etc.

John must indeed, "prophesy again", and it takes place through the end-time peoples:

Revelation 10:11 KJB - And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Revelation 14:6 KJB - And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Revelation 14:7 KJB - Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.​

Jesus, is stil lthe one speaking from the word, by the Holy Spirit, who gives the gifts as He wills unto various members of the Church. The Church today [Present], is a member of the body, the Church, of the Past, and as such, must have the same blood [of Christ] and spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit flowing throughout it.

 

[One Baptism]

And why is that? It's because there is no need for them. The Son has come.

I can tell you a prophecy that John Huss gave, and one of which Luther gave, and of a dream of Frederick the elector of Saxony, Patrick of Ireland's [a seventh-day Sabbath keeper, in "The Confessio"] dream, William Miller, the visions of William Foy and Hazen Foss, and the visions and dreams of sister Ellen G. White, brother Matteson had a dream [Testimonies For the Church, Volume 1, Chapter 104, page 596.3-598.2 [JULY 15, 1867]]:

Patrick of Ireland:

[a message was given to patrick in a dream] - "... Your hungers are rewarded. You are going home. Look -- your ship is ready. ..."

"... During the silent watches of the night he fancied he heard voices calling to him from the dark forests of Erin: “Come, holy child, and walk once more among us.” ..." - The History of the Reformation of the 16th Century, J. H. Merle D'Aubigne, Volume 5, Book 17, Chapter 1, page 679

[Victoricus] appears to him in vision, handing him a letter, "Voice of the Irish".​

John Huss:

"... "John Huss did more: prophetic words issued from the depths of his dungeon. He foresaw that a real reformation of the Church was at hand. When driven out of Prague and compelled to wander through the fields of Bohemia, where an immense crowd followed his steps and hung upon his words, he had cried out: “The wicked have begun by preparing a treacherous snare for the goose. But if even the goose, which is only a domestic bird, a peaceful animal, and whose flight is not very high in the air, has nevertheless broken through their toils, other birds, soaring more boldly towards the sky, will break through them with still greater force. Instead of a feeble goose, the truth will send forth eagles and keen-eyed vultures.” This prediction was fulfilled by the reformers.

When the venerable priest had been summoned by Sigismund’s order before the council of Constance, and had been thrown into prison, the chapel of Bethlehem, in which he had proclaimed the Gospel and the future triumphs of Christ, occupied his mind, much more than his own defence. One night the holy martyr saw in imagination, from the depths of his dungeon, the pictures of Christ that he had painted on the walls of his oratory, effaced by the pope and his bishops. This vision distressed him: but on the next day he saw many painters occupied in restoring these figures in greater number and in brighter colors. As soon as their task was ended, the painters, who were surrounded by an immense crowd, exclaimed: “Now let the popes and bishops come! they shall never efface them more!” And many people rejoiced in Bethlehem, and I with them, adds John Huss.—” Busy yourself with your defence rather than with your dreams,” said his faithful friend, the knight of Chlum, to whom he had communicated this vision. “I am no dreamer,” replied Huss, “but I maintain this for certain, that the image of Christ will never be effaced. They have wished to destroy it, but it shall be painted afresh in all hearts by much better preachers than myself. The nation that loves Christ will rejoice at this. And I, awaking from among the dead, and rising, so to speak, from my grave, shall leap with great joy.” ..." - The History of the Reformation of the 16th Century, J. H. Merle D'Aubigne, Volume 1, Book 1, Chapter 6, page 30

"... “You are now going to burn a goose, but in a century you will have a swan which you can neither roast nor boil.” ..."​

 

[One Baptism]

And why is that? It's because there is no need for them. The Son has come.

Frederick of Saxony:

"...The Elector Frederick of Saxony, say the chronicles of the time, was at his palace of Schweinitz, six leagues from Wittenberg, when, on the 31st October, early in the morning, being with his brother Duke John, who was then co-regent, and who reigned alone after his death, and with his chancellor, the elector said—”I must tell you of a dream, brother, which I had last night, and of which I should like to know the meaning. It is so firmly graven in my memory that I should never forget it, even were I to live a thousand years; for it came three times, and always with new circumstances.”

Duke John.—”Was it a good or a bad dream?”

The Elector.—”I cannot tell: God knows.”

Duke John.—”Do not be uneasy about it: let me hear it.”

The Elector.—”Having gone to bed last night, tired and dispirited, I soon fell asleep after saying my prayers, and slept calmly for about two hours and a half. I then awoke, and all kinds of thoughts occupied me till midnight. I reflected how I should keep the festival of All-Saints; I prayed for the wretched souls in purgatory, and begged that God would direct me, my councils, and my people, according to the truth. I then fell asleep again, and dreamt that the Almighty sent me a monk, who was a true son of Paul the Apostle. He was accompanied by all the saints, in obedience to God’s command, to bear him testimony, and to assure me that he did not come with any fraudulent design, but that all he should do was conformable to the will of God. They asked my gracious permission to let him write something on the doors of the palace-chapel at Wittenberg, which I conceded through my chancellor. Upon this, the monk repaired thither and began to write; so large were the characters that I could read from Schweinitz what he was writing. The pen he used was so long that its extremity reached as far as Rome, where it pierced the ears of a lion which lay there, and shook [96] the triple crown on the pope’s head. All the cardinals and princes ran up hastily and endeavoured to support it. You and I both tendered our assistance: I stretched out my arm that moment I awoke with my arm extended, in great alarm and very angry with this monk, who could not guide his pen better. I recovered myself a little it was only a dream.

“I was still half asleep, and once more closed my eyes. The dream came again. The lion, still disturbed by the pen, began to roar with all his might, until the whole city of Rome, and all the states of the Holy Empire, ran up to know what was the matter. The pope called upon us to oppose this monk, and addressed himself particularly to me, because the friar was living in my dominions. I again awoke, repeated the Lord’s prayer, entreated God to preserve his holiness, and fell asleep

“I then dreamt that all the princes of the empire, and we along with them hastened to Rome, and endeavoured one after another to break this pen; but the greater our exertions, the stronger it became: it crackled as if it had been made of iron: we gave it up as hopeless. I then asked the monk (for I was now at Rome, now at Wittenberg) where he had got that pen, and how it came to be so strong. ‘This pen,’ replied he, ‘belonged to a Bohemian goose a hundred years old. I had it from one of my old schoolmasters. It is so strong, because no one can take the pith out of it, and I am myself quite astonished at it.’ On a sudden I heard a loud cry: from the monk’s long pen had issued a host of other pens I awoke a third time: it was daylight.”

Duke John.—”What is your opinion, Mr. Chancellor? Would that we had here a Joseph, or a Daniel, taught of God!”

The Chancellor.—”Your highnesses know the vulgar proverb, that the dreams of young women, wise men, and great lords, have generally some hidden meaning. But we shall not learn the signification of this for some time, until the events have come to pass to which it relates. For this reason, confide its accomplishment to God, and commit all things into his hands.”

Duke John.—”My opinion is the same as yours, Mr. Chancellor; it is not proper for us to rack our brains to discover the interpretation of this dream: God will direct everything to his own glory.”

The Elector.—”May our faithful God do even so! Still I shall never forget this dream. I have thought of one interpretation but I shall keep it to myself. Time will show, perhaps, whether I have conjectured rightly.” ..." - The History of the Reformation of the 16th Century, J. H. Merle D'Aubigne, Volume 1, Book 3, Chapter 4, pages 95-96​

Martin Luther [1540's, which William Miller and Adventist movement preached, "Behold, the Bridegroom" message in 1840's, three hundred years from Luther's day, which turns out is just before the Judgment, the Day of Atonement was to take place, October 22, 1844, as per Daniel 8:13,14,26 KJB, etc]:

"I hope the last Day of Judgment is not far, I persuade myself verily it will not be absent full three hundred years longer; for God's Word will decrease and be darkened for want of true shepherds and servants of God. The voice will sound and be heard ere long: Behold, the Bridegroom Cometh..." - [The familiar discourses of Dr. Martin Luther (the great reformer) (1818); page "7-8", last two lines, continued in top three lines] - http://archive.org/stream/familiardi...age/6/mode/2up or http://archive.org/stream/familiardi...age/7/mode/1up and http://archive.org/stream/familiardi...age/8/mode/1up​

 

[One Baptism]

And why is that? It's because there is no need for them. The Son has come.

An interesting case of Maniilaq, the Eskimo Prophet - Maniilaq, the Eskimo Prophet or http://revelado.org/maniilaq.eskimo.prophet.pdf

South American Native Auka - Angels Preach the Gospel

 

[Yeshua1]

Watching you "quote you" is only considered 'authoritative' or "as good a scripture saying it" to someone who keeps a sufficient "distance" from scripture in the first place.

Give me the Bible "AND The Words IN the Bible" .. no need to keep watching you "quote you"

The person who was an Apostle HAD to see the risen Christ, or else walk with Him, does your EW qualify?

 

[Yeshua1]

That is a rabbit trail and we both know it. You are pursuing a line of argument that no Bible endorses. Period.

Which is why I refuse to list them for you.

So you would see only EW as a prophet after John?

 

[Yeshua1]

An interesting case of Maniilaq, the Eskimo Prophet - Maniilaq, the Eskimo Prophet or http://revelado.org/maniilaq.eskimo.prophet.pdf

South American Native Auka - Angels Preach the Gospel

Interesting indeed, as under not true!

 

[BobRyan]

So you would see only EW as a prophet after John?

No - I think that list that One Baptism gave is pretty good -- but it has nothing at all to do with an actual Bible statement about "no other prophets since Malachi for John the baptizer so therefore John could not have been a prophet".

Which means I am against "making stuff up" or just "quoting yourself"

 

[Yeshua1]

No - I think that list that One Baptism gave is pretty good -- but it has nothing at all to do with an actual Bible statement about "no other prophets since Malachi for John the baptizer so therefore John could not have been a prophet".

Which means I am against "making stuff up" or just "quoting yourself"

there was no additional revelation given to us by God after John passed away

 

[thatbrian]

The person who was an Apostle HAD to see the risen Christ, or else walk with Him, does your EW qualify?

Didn't Christ say that He would build His Church on a rock? Ellen White was hit in the head, sustaining a brain injury, with a rock. Does that count?

 

[One Baptism]

there was no additional revelation given to us by God after John passed away

Ok, would you mind if we do this the scriptural way, instead of just making assertions without evidence from the scripture?

There is no sense in playing the "Yes-huh, No-huh, Yes-huh, No-huh,' game, as everyone who plays that game lost from the beginning.

Please begin, by presenting what text or texts you presently think teach such a position. Then we will have something to look at together, unless you prefer to simply assert without a scriptural foundation, in which case, the authority is no longer the word of God, but your own word, and thus may be safely ignored, by myself and others who rather choose to have multiple thus saith the Lord, and It is written to have as foundation for every belief and practice.