Dancing, Gambling, and Drinking

[JohnDeereFan]

I do not want to get back on the subject of Paul Washer

Nobody said anything about Paul Washer and, as you well know, your behavior wasn't limited to that one thread, but spread across several threads and into PMs to me and another poster.

but do not see how an opinion from me about the man is a lie.

It wasn't an opinion. You made a statement of fact that turned out to be demonstrably untrue.

I did not call you a liar because you think he is a sincere speaker.

Actually, you did call me a liar.

If you were going to compare me to a political figure, you could have at least said Nixon instead of Clinton.

Well, since Nixon showed signs of mental illness, I guess that's true. Clinton was just white trash.

Anyway, this is off subject of this thread

And yet, you still brought it up.

Funny how you have a habit of bringing things up and then, when responded to, start whining about how it's off topic.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I would probably not ever do it again. My point is, if someone uses their money, does not harm their family, and is not addicted to it, I look at it as entertainment like a movie. I feel the same way as I do about drinking. Because I do not does not give me the right to judge or tell someone else not to.

First, as regards telling someone else not to do it, I don't engage in that type of nullification. However, when the subject of gambling comes up, it isn't my own experience that causes me to say something. My purpose should be readily evident in my first post. Gambling at any level of engagement is sin.

You continue to say "I look it as entertaiinment," but I again return to my comparison to throwing that $20 bill out the window. You say here, "I would probably [my emphasis added] not do it again," which honestly tells me you equivocate about it. If you found yourself in Las Vegas or any city with legalized gambling, would you go to a casino? Unless you can tell me emphatically, "No," I've got to wonder, is there a problem there?

Throwing money away is not good stewardship. Gambling is throwing money away. Therefore, gambling is not good stewardship. That's not logical fallacy, that's fact. Anyone should be able to see that gambling is not any way for a Christian to spend his/her time.

 

[preacher4truth]

It speaks to contentment. If you'e content with your salary don't ask for a salary.

Should folks not invest in stocks or have 401ks either? There seems to be a desire to get rich there also.

I'm just saying I don't think we can say that someone is not content just because they buy i.e. a lottery ticket. I just don't see any difference in that than a church raffle for a new colored tv.

There is nothing wrong with saving and preparing, Proverbs 6 teaches this.

What does the text in 1 Timothy 6 teach? My opinion means nada, correct? Good questions though. Does the text say desiring to be rich is wrong? I believe it does. It's akin to being covetous and is opposed to being content. I'd say the person buying the lottery ticket is desiring to be rich and is not content with what he has. Now, there could be a person doing it to give it away, or, promising God that they will give most of it away if only He would give them the winning numbers. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbs:

 

[saturneptune]

Nobody said anything about Paul Washer and, as you well know, your behavior wasn't limited to that one thread, but spread across several threads and into PMs to me and another poster.



It wasn't an opinion. You made a statement of fact that turned out to be demonstrably untrue.



Actually, you did call me a liar.



Well, since Nixon showed signs of mental illness, I guess that's true. Clinton was just white trash.



And yet, you still brought it up.

Funny how you have a habit of bringing things up and then, when responded to, start whining about how it's off topic.

I will not bother you again. Wish the best for your ministry and family.

 

[InTheLight]

S/N, I have to ask: How can you see "nothing wrong" with literally throwing $20 away? How is that good stewardship? Returning to my first post, would you throw it out a car window? If not, why would you throw it away at a casino?

As long as we are asking questions about the use of money...

How is going to the casino and spending $20 on slots for entertainment for a couple of hours different from spending $20 on a ticket to a baseball game and being entertained for a couple of hours?

 

[Zaac]

There is nothing wrong with saving and preparing, Proverbs 6 teaches this.

What does the text in 1 Timothy 6 teach? My opinion means nada, correct? Good questions though. Does the text say desiring to be rich is wrong? I believe it does. It's akin to being covetous and is opposed to being content. I'd say the person buying the lottery ticket is desiring to be rich and is not content with what he has. Now, there could be a person doing it to give it away, or, promising God that they will give most of it away if only He would give them the winning numbers. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbs:

But again, wouldn't the same thing apply to investing in stocks? Cause that's a definite gamble.

 

[saturneptune]

First, as regards telling someone else not to do it, I don't engage in that type of nullification. However, when the subject of gambling comes up, it isn't my own experience that causes me to say something. My purpose should be readily evident in my first post. Gambling at any level of engagement is sin.

You continue to say "I look it as entertaiinment," but I again return to my comparison to throwing that $20 bill out the window. You say here, "I would probably [my emphasis added] not do it again," which honestly tells me you equivocate about it. If you found yourself in Las Vegas or any city with legalized gambling, would you go to a casino? Unless you can tell me emphatically, "No," I've got to wonder, is there a problem there?

Throwing money away is not good stewardship. Gambling is throwing money away. Therefore, gambling is not good stewardship. That's not logical fallacy, that's fact. Anyone should be able to see that gambling is not any way for a Christian to spend his/her time.

Well, since it was two hours out of sixty years, yes, I can say I would never do it again. Had it been a problem, I might have a different view. You keep saying, using money for gambling is not good stewardship. What do you feel is a good way to spend money on entertainment? Movies, cable TV, or the internet? I am not sure a I am understanding how you are focusing on gambling vs other forms of entertainment.

For example, if a person is paying for the internet, say forty bucks a month, and is further spending money on porn sites and meeting other women, then would say spending that money is without a doubt a sin. However, since I do spend money on an internet bill, and spend most of my time here and news sites, I would say it is not a sin.

 

[InTheLight]

Gee, I'm sorry you were so offended when I pointed out your lying, but I really didn't know what other word to use to describe someone who would engage in lying than a liar. Prevaricator, perhaps? Clinton-esque?

Only in that one thread??? Not all the other threads? Not the PMs?

Wow. SN just made a sincere effort to reconcile with you and instead of graciously accepting his apologies you stick the knife in and twist it. And in public. Shame on you.

 

[Zaac]

As long as we are asking questions about the use of money...

How is going to the casino and spending $20 on slots for entertainment for a couple of hours different from spending $20 on a ticket to a baseball game and being entertained for a couple of hours?

That's my point. I don't see how the church differentiates between the two.

$20 for a couple hours at the casino or for a baseball game or a $1 for a lottery ticket or a dollar for a Big Gulp?

 

[Zaac]

Wow. SN just made a sincere effort to reconcile with you and instead of graciously accepting his apologies you stick the knife in and twist it. And in public. Shame on you.

That's why SN needs to just leave it alone at this point.

 

[InTheLight]

That's why SN needs to just leave it alone at this point.

Looks to me that he's attempting to do exactly that. But JDF just won't let up.

 

[saturneptune]

But again, wouldn't the same thing apply to investing in stocks? Cause that's a definite gamble.

I was reading through the minutes of our church in the 20s, and found a passage that the church had brought discipline against a man for investing in the stock market and he was disfellowshipped.

 

[preacher4truth]

But again, wouldn't the same thing apply to investing in stocks? Cause that's a definite gamble.

And what would Scripture say about that since you say it is in fact gambling?

I know in our culture things have become acceptable, people have become desensitized, so I wonder about it all in light of God's Word which isn't affected by society nor is it a product of culture, nor does it adjust to the times.

 

[InTheLight]

That's my point. I don't see how the church differentiates between the two.

$20 for a couple hours at the casino or for a baseball game or a $1 for a lottery ticket or a dollar for a Big Gulp?

The argument against gambling usually goes like this--The person engaged in gambling is attempting to obtain something for next to nothing, or at least by not working. This violates the work ethic. Then a tenuous connection to working and eating can be made via 2 Thess 2:10-11:

...if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. 11 For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies.

Ergo, gambling is a sin. (I don't believe gambling is a sin, but I think it should be avoided for other reasons.)

 

[InTheLight]

"Plenty of people don't win the lottery the first few thousand times they play it."

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

What do you feel is a good way to spend money on entertainment? Movies, cable TV, or the internet?

I get something from these. The Internet is not "entertainment" for me, it is a necessity for my work, though obviously I get some entertainment out of it in off hours. With movies, I truly am entertained, whether by a comedy, a documentary (which is also informative), a drama, or historical fiction. Usually, except when I guess wrong about the manner of talent and expertise put into a movie, I come away a bit better for having seen it. Cable television provides the same thing, to a lesser degree, plus it brings me news and information.

I am not sure a I am understanding how you are focusing on gambling vs other forms of entertainment.

You keep asking this, but avoid the issue of greed, which Paul calls "idolatry" in the Colossians passage I quoted. Is greed ever good or entertaining? No. It is always sin.

For example, if a person is paying for the internet, say forty bucks a month, and is further spending money on porn sites and meeting other women, then would say spending that money is without a doubt a sin. However, since I do spend money on an internet bill, and spend most of my time here and news sites, I would say it is not a sin.

You get something out of it, without sin. You cannot get something out of gambling without sinning. That should be easy enough for anyone to understand.

 

[saturneptune]

And what would Scripture say about that since you say it is in fact gambling?

I know in our culture things have become acceptable, people have become desensitized, so I wonder about it all in light of God's Word which isn't affected by society nor is it a product of culture, nor does it adjust to the times.

I suppose there is a difference in gambling and investing. Investing takes some intelligence in understanding economic trends and sectors that will make a profit. The Bible does make a point that there is nothing wrong with earning interest on money saved. No one can consider gambling a serious instrument in saving towards retirement.

 

[InTheLight]

You keep asking this, but avoid the issue of greed, which Paul calls "idolatry" in the Colossians passage I quoted. Is greed ever good or entertaining? No. It is always sin.

Greed is an attitude of the heart. Is wanting to get a raise at your workplace greed? Is wanting to negotiate a better deal for an automobile greed? Is following your 401k's performance greed? I say no.

SN admitted he only did slots for entertainment. That's not greed. Now if he was habitually going to the casino with the hopes of striking it rich, that would be greed.

 

[Zaac]

I was reading through the minutes of our church in the 20s, and found a passage that the church had brought discipline against a man for investing in the stock market and he was disfellowshipped.

I was wondering if they ever happened. My mind just doesn't see any big differnce between investing 10K to make 100K over a long period by investing in stocks which it may or may not do or spending a dollar on a lottery ticket to win a million which you may or may not win.

 

[preacher4truth]

I suppose there is a difference in gambling and investing. Investing takes some intelligence in understanding economic trends and sectors that will make a profit. The Bible does make a point that there is nothing wrong with earning interest on money saved. No one can consider gambling a serious instrument in saving towards retirement.

I understand that earning interest is OK but I see a huge difference between that and the real possibility of losing substantial amounts of money on a gamble type investment.