Dead in Sin

[Silverhair]

Many said the same of our Savior.

Just the same, none of them can prove your Scriptures to be false.

In fact it's overwhelming, and I've learned from you, Brother.

Glad to hear that I can help in some small way.

 

[Charlie24]

Glad to hear that I can help in some small way.

The last one to know the knowledge they are increasing in others, is the one who gives it.

 

[Van]

You call Prevenient Grace and invention but that is not how I see it. I see it as God's grace at work in a person's life before they are aware of it, enabling them to respond in faith. This grace enables people to choose to accept or reject salvation thus their ultimate decision remains their own responsibility.

These passages would suggest the preceding grace of God.
Joh 1:9 The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world.

Joh 12:46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in Me should remain in darkness.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone.

Tit 3:4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared,

And there are others but for me these passages collectively support the idea that Prevenient Grace is God's initiative in enabling individuals to respond to Him, despite their fallen state.

Anyone can read into scripture any sort of doctrine they desire.

First, the issue is NOT "preceding" grace. Of course God reveals Himself in order for us to be aware of invisible attributes. General and Special Revelation. That is NOT what Prevenient Grace is.

Prevenient Grace is the fictional enabling grace that allows the lost, who supposedly initially suffer from total spiritual inability, to be able to seek God and put their trust in Christ.

 

[Van]

You may not like it Van, but the Calvinists are correct on total depravity.

Rom. 3:10-12

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

The issue is not what I like. I like the truth.

No one said anyone but Jesus, was righteous. We all have fallen short. But I expect you know that is NOT the issue.

Total Depravity, meaning "total spiritual inability" is the fiction. Many of the lost are indeed able to seek God, Luke 13:24. The fact that "None seek after God" does not mean "None of the lost ever seek after God until enabled by Prevenient Grace." It means "None seek after God all the time or when sinning, therefore, we all have fallen short of the glory of God (Jesus, God incarnate).

 

[Silverhair]

Anyone can read into scripture any sort of doctrine they desire.

First, the issue is NOT "preceding" grace. Of course God reveals Himself in order for us to be aware of invisible attributes. General and Special Revelation. That is NOT what Prevenient Grace is.

Prevenient Grace is the fictional enabling grace that allows the lost, who supposedly initially suffer from total spiritual inability, to be able to seek God and put their trust in Christ.

You can disagree Van but the scriptures I posted support the view of Prevenient Grace.

We do not suffer from total spiritual inability, that is a false teaching of calvinism.

 

[Van]

You can disagree Van but the scriptures I posted support the view of Prevenient Grace.

We do not suffer from total spiritual inability, that is a false teaching of calvinism.

Arminianism believes that total spiritual inability requires the lost to be enabled to seek God by "Enabling Grace."

For you to use the same label but mean "Revelatory Grace" which does not alter the innate limited spiritual ability of the lost is simply throwing a monkey wrench into the discussion.

 

[Silverhair]

Arminianism believes that total spiritual inability requires the lost to be enabled to seek God by "Enabling Grace."

For you to use the same label but mean "Revelatory Grace" which does not alter the innate limited spiritual ability of the lost is simply throwing a monkey wrench into the discussion.

The verses that I posted show the prevenient {coming before; antecedent} grace of God. The grace that goes before.


Prevenient Grace: divine grace operating on the human will prior to its turning to God.