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Dead to the Ten Commandments
- Thread starter The Biblicist
- Start date
convicted1
Guest
The Law and Prophets were unto John. Since then the Kingdom is heaven is being preached, and men press into it.
Jesus fulfilled the Law when He took our curse for us. The Law never could save one soul, but Grace does.
Jesus fulfilled the Law when He took our curse for us. The Law never could save one soul, but Grace does.
convicted1
Guest
Another thing to add; we are dead to the Law by the body of Christ.
Read it again! Read Romans 7:1-5 again! You are reading into this text what it does not say, does not mean. Read it again! However, I doubt if reading it again will do you any good so let me break it down for you and see if the Lord will allow your confused mind to understand His Word. Here we go, read slowly and ask the Lord for understanding:
1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Notice what he said versus what he did not say! He did not say the law has dominion over a "Jew"! He did not say that but you said that! He said the law hath dominion over a "MAN" as long as he liveth. The Gentile was "under sin" as much as the Jew was "under sin"
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Do you see the word "GENTILE" included above by Paul Moriah? Can you read and understand the word "GENTILE" Moriah????
Can you see the word "BOTH" included by Paul Moriah??
Can you see the word "ALL" which refers back to "BOTH" and not merely "jews" but GENTILES Moriah?
Can you see the words "THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN" Moriah?
Can you see and understand he is denying that merely the Jew is "under sin" Moriah???
Can you understand and recognize that "BOTH......GENTILES.....ALL are UNDER SIN" Moriah and not just Jews?????
Moriah you cannot be "under sin" if you are not "under the law" or don't you understand that? Probably not! So let me explain it to you.
1. Sin by definition is the transgression of the law and Gentiles are said to be "under sin"!
2. Not only does Paul say BOTH Jews and Gentiles are "ALL UNDER SIN" but just a few verses down he says "THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE for ALL have sinned"
However, Moriah your interpretation is trying to MAKE A DIFFERENCE between the Jew and Gentile "under sin" and thus "under the law"! You repudiate Paul's denial don't you Moriah. You are trying to make a difference between Jew and Gentile in regard to the law and in regard to sin are you not??? Paul says there is NO DIFFERENCE for "ALL" that is "BOTH" jew and Gentle are "ALL UNDER SIN"
Do you believe that BOTH Jew and Gentile are ALL under sin and therefore there is NO DIFFERENCE Between Jew and Gentile when it comes to being "under sin" and thus being "under the law" because you cannnot sin if you are not under the law!
19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Moriah do you see the words "ALL THE WORLD"???? There are only TWO kinds of people that make up "ALL THE WORLD"! Did you know that? If you are not a Jew then you are a Gentile as "BOTH" make up "ALL THE WORLD."
Moriah are BOTH Jews and Gentiles, ALL under sin?? What does Paul say Moriah?
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
If "ALL" are under sin then "ALL THE WORLD" becomes guilty before God because "THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE FOR ALL HAVE SINNED" and thus ALL are "UNDER THE LAW" because only those UNDER THE LAW can be condemned as sinners for sin by definition is the transgression of the law (1 Jn. 4:6) and you canot transgress something you are not "under" can you Moriah!
So "ALL THE WORLD" does not mean merely Jews does it Moriah????? Paul is not speaking about only Jews is he Moriah but "BOTH" Jews and Gentiles as "ALL are UNDER SIN" are they not Moriah????
So "EVERY MOUTH" not merely the Jewish mouth but "EVERY" mouth is shut by the law because BOTH Jew and Gentile are "UNDER THE LAW".
How are you going to deal with the fact that Paul says "ALL THE WORLD" is UNDER THE LAW Moriah? That BOTH Jew and Gentiles are "UNDER THE LAW" Moriah??? that "EVERY" mouth is shut by the law and not merely Jews Moriah? That "NO FLESH" (not "no Jewish flesh") BOTH Jewish or Gentile flesh, the flesh of "ALL THE WORLD" that "no flesh" can be justified by the Law!!!!!
How are you going to deal with the fact that Paul says ALL THE WORLD is under the law??????? You reject that idea don't you Moriah? You would call Paul a liar wouldn't you Moriah.
How is ALL THE WORLD "under the law" Moriah? How does the law shut "EVERY MOUTH" in "ALL THE WORLD" Moriah if the Law is restricted to merely the Mosaic Law?????
Here is how Moriah! The Mosaic law is simply the most comprehensive law given by God that REVEALS the righteousness of God. All lessor revelations reveal the same righteousness of God but not as comprehensively as the Mosaic Law. The law written upon the conscience of the Gentiles reveals the same righteousness of God but not as comprehensively as the Mosaic Law. The only other revelation that reveals the righteousness of God more clearly than either conscience or the Mosaic law is the revelation of the righteousness of God in the Person of Jesus Christ - He is the incarnate revelation of the Righteousness of God! Isn't that exactly what Paul continues to say Moriah??? Let us read it:
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
The Mosaic Law revealed the righteousness of God! However, Paul says that "now the righteousness of God WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested? What revelation is that Moriah? It is the revelation of the righteousness of God that had been "witnessed by the law and the Prophets"!! What revelation of the righteousness of God had been witnessed by the Law and the prophets Moriah???
"Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of JESUS CHRIST"!! What does that mean Moriah? It means that the revelation of the righteousness witnessed by the law and the prophets was the revelation of God in the flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ. It means the life of Christ manifested the righteousness of God clearer than all previous laws revealed it. More clearer and more comphrensive than the Mosaic Law. More clearer and more comprehensive than the revelation of God's righteousness written upon the conscience of all men (Rom. 2:14-15).
Did not the law and the prophets give Witness to the coming of Jesus Christ who is the revelation of the righteousness of God?
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
The Law of God reveals the righteousness of God! The very same Law of God that reveals His righteousness that was written upon the conscience of the Gentile (Rom. 2:14-15) is the very same law that reveals the righteousness of God that was given to Moses - except greatly expanded and far more comprehensive and thus making the Jew much more accountable. Whether it was written upon conscience or whether in its most comprehensive form as given to Moses, it is the very same Law of God that REVEALS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD and "both" Jew and Gentile and thus "ALL THE WORLD" have been created "UNDER THE LAW" whether it was written upon their conscience or whether it was given to them in external written form as it was Moses - the Law - REVEALS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD and "ALL THE WORLD" has sinned - violated - broken whatever revelation of God's righteousness that has been given to them and so the whole world is "under sin" and "under the law".
Now let us return to Romans 7:1 where Paul uses the word "man" not the word "Jew" as YOU READ INTO THE TEXT! Every "man" both Jew and Gentile are "under sin" and thus "under law" and will be until they die because the law of God has been written in the conscience of every man both Jew and Gentile. The Jews had been given a more comprehensive revelation of the righteousness of God in the Mosaic Law but regardless BOTH Jews and Gentile had been given the Law of God and THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE FOR ALL HAVE SINNED - ALL HAVE VIOLATED whatever manfiestation of the Law they have been given. All are "under the Law" and under its condemnation for as long as they live because the WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH!
Rom. 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Now, Moriah he is going to illustrate this principle by a particular law given in Moses or the law of Marriage to prove that a "man" is under law until death.
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Again, the very SAME LAW OF GOD written upon the conscience of every man is the very SAME LAW OF GOD given to Moses with only one exception - the Law of God given to Moses is far more COMPREHENSIVE and DETAILED than that written upon the human consicence. The very same Law of God written upon every conscience and given to Moses is the very same Law of God revealed in the Incarnate Jesus Christ. The law of God reveals the righteousness of God whether in conscience, in Moses or in the Person and life of Christ and there is no difference, both Jew and Gentile have all sinned against that righteousness in whatever revelation they have been given and the wages for violating that righteous standard is "death."
Paul illustrates that as long as a man continues to live he is under the laws condemnation and only when the penalty is exacted is he no longer under the law. This concept is illustrated in the law of Marriage as given to Moses. A spouse is under the law of marriage until the other spouse dies. Only then is the living spouse free from that law of marriage. When the spouse dies the living spouse is then free to marry another person.
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Every man - both Jew and Gentile has sinned againt the law of God and is under its condemnation - for there is no difference for ALL HAVE SINNED and therefore must remain under the condemnation ofthe law until that penalty has been exacted of every man. Only when that penalty has been fully exacted is any man free from the law and its condemnation.
However, no man can ever FINISH paying that penalty because it is ETERNAL DEATH (Rev. 20:15-17).
God has made a provision for that penalty - ETERNAL DEATH - can be paid in full and thus be freed from the law and its condemnation. Jesus Christ acted as our REPRESENTATIVE by his life and death and when he died on the cross the full penalty of the law was exacted upon Him for all who trust in the good news of what Christ did (the gospel). Thus by the dead body of Christ on the cross those who believe in Christ as their SUBSTITUTE before the law of God have DIED to the law and are now free to marry another - spiritual union with Jesus Christ.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
By faith in Christ we have died to the law and its penalty through the substitutionary Person of Christ on the cross dying FOR US and thus releasing us from the Law of God and its penalty. This freedom from the law occurs at justification by faith when Christ's death and righteous life is imputed to us.
Moriah, the Law of God is simply the revelation of THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD (Rom. 3:22). Whether it is written upon the conscience (Rom. 2:14-15) it still reveals the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD or what God says is right versus what God says is wrong and thus the conscience either approves or condemns of what we think and do in keeping with God's righteousness.
Moriah, the Mosaic Law is the same Law of God written upon the conscience of the Gentile but greatly more comprehensive and detailed applied to every aspect of their life (religious and civil). However, it only reveals the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God or what God approves versus what he condemns - the standard of righteousness.
The "deeds of the law" or the "works of the law" are simply those things that God approves as being righteous. It is what you DO to please God according to the righteousnesss revealed in the law. If you are a Gentile and you have only a limited revelation of God's righteousness as found in your conscience then the "works of the law" or "deeds of the law" is what you DO to satisfy the righteousness of God revealed in your conscience.
The ten commandments are stated negatively in the Old Testament but stated postively in the New Testament.
Thou shalt NOT steal tell us what NOT TO DO in order not to violate the righteousness of God.
However, the very same law stated positively in the New Testament is Love that goes beyond restraining from stealing to GIVING of your own things to those in need.
However, both reveal the righteousness of God, negatively and positively and keeping both is what the "deeds" or "works" of the law mean. If you don't kill you are obeying the law and that is regarded as "good" deeds or "works" from the negative aspect. If you go beyond the negative aspect and GIVE to those in need you are also doing the "deeds" or "works" of the law and thus "good" works.
Here is where man has problems - There is none that doeth good no, not one (Rom. 3:11). Jesus says there is none good but one and that is God (Lk. 18:19). All men have sinned and broken God's revealed righteousness and thus "come short of the glory of God" which is the righteousness of God. That is why no man can be justified by the "deeds" of the Law because no man can actual DO the righteousness revealed in the Law.
Why? Because the righteousness revealed in the law does not only demand NOT DOING what is wrong and DOING what is right but doing ALL THINGS in the Law continuously and perfectly ALL THE TIME and to fail in one point is to fail in all points and NO MAN HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT but one - Jesus Christ.
The righteousness demanded by the Law is the same righteousness it is designed to REVEAL - the righteousness of God and thus the law defines righteousness to be equal to God's righteousness - "Be ye PERFECT even as your Father in heaven is Perfect" and ALL HAVE COME SHORT of that righteousness!
A sinner is anyone who has EVER SINNED BUT ONCE and ONE SIN invalidates you under God's law to be "perfect EVEN AS your Father is perfect."
How Perfect is our Father in heaven since we are to be "EVEN AS" He is perfect?
Has our Father in heaven ever sinned ONCE? No! Has our Father in heaven ever needed to be forgiven ONCE? No! That is how perfect you must be to be justified before God according to your own works!
Where are you going to obtain that kind of perfection that has never once sinned and never once need repentance? The answer to that question is what the GOOD NEWS of the gospel is all about! Christ provides the righteousness of God for sinners by faith! It is IMPUTED to your account before God by faith. Christ becomes your salvaition by faith. His own personal righteousness that never once sinned, never once needed repentance is IMPUTED to you by faith WITHOUT YOUR imperfect works:
Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Notice that it is the "UNGODLY" that God justifieth not the "godly" simply because there is none righteous, no, not one. Notice that it is the faith of the "ungodly" or "his faith is COUNTED for righteousness" rather than his "works".
Reread this post carefully and slowly before responding to it rashly.
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Why dont you read Romans 9. I suppose if everyones already predestined in where they end up, what does anything matter. Nothing you say, do or think you believe matters. Its written. Nothin we can do about it.
Biblicist,
The Gentiles were NOT God’s people. The Jews were God’s people.
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)-- remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. Ephesians 2:11-12
It does not matter how much you deny it. It does not matter how much you do not understand. It does not matter how hard you fight it---the Gentiles were SEPARATED FROM CHRIST, EXCLUDED FROM CITIZENSHIP IN ISRAEL AND FOREIGNERS TO THE COVENANTS OF THE PROMISE, WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD.
Can you see that, Biblicist? Do you want to keep denying the Word of God? Do you want to keep going against the Word of God?
The Gentiles were NOT God’s people. The Jews were God’s people.
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)-- remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. Ephesians 2:11-12
It does not matter how much you deny it. It does not matter how much you do not understand. It does not matter how hard you fight it---the Gentiles were SEPARATED FROM CHRIST, EXCLUDED FROM CITIZENSHIP IN ISRAEL AND FOREIGNERS TO THE COVENANTS OF THE PROMISE, WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD.
Can you see that, Biblicist? Do you want to keep denying the Word of God? Do you want to keep going against the Word of God?
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No one is claiming the Gentiles are the people of God! No one is denying the Jews were the chosen people of God! No one!
Did you even read my last three posts? If you did, did you understand what I wrote??? Apparently not or you would not be responding with such nonsense!
I am not trying to prove the Gentiles were the people of God! I am not trying to disprove the Jews were the chosen people of God.
What I am showing you is that Paul's teaching on "the law" is NOT YOUR TEACHING ON THE LAW. Pauls' teaching about the Law INCLUDED GENTILES UNDER THE LAW!
Paul's teaching on "the law" included MORE than the Mosaic Law and MORE than Jews!
Instead of dealing with Romans 3:9-23 you simply ignored that text and ran and jumped and pitted scripture against scripture just like all heretics do! Try reading the text and allowing the context to explain the text instead of pitting scripture against scripture!!
What does your comment even have to do with Romans 3:9-23 and Romans 7:1-5??????? or about anything I said in the last three posts???????
You are wrong. I guess if you mislead others, then you will have to answer for it, because you are the one who is trying to teach. I just hate to see others misled.
It is horrible how you can speak such untruths, untruths about the Bible, and untruths about what I say.
I don't know whether to feel sorry for you because you appear to be so stupid or to rebuke you sharply for being an outright heretic! Hard to tell!
Apparently you care little for the Word of God because you ignore, pit scripture against scripture, rewrite it to suite yourself.
I took Romans 3:9,19-23 and broke it down in little pieces for you so you could understand what it says but you could care less what it says or apparently incapable of reading and understanding what it says becuase you make no comments on the text. You provide no response to the texts to show where I made any error at all in my exposition. You simply write a bunch of nonsense that is completely unrelated to the scriptures I placed in front of you.
Maybe you don't know how to do expository study? Maybe you have never been taught how to "rightly divide the word of truth"?
You need to go to your Pastor and let him help you learn how to rightly divide God's Word and stop broadcasting your ignorance and ask more questions and learn something.
DHK,
Where are your moderating skills now? Why are you not jumping on Biblicist? Tell us all what kind of spirit you have that attacks me for no reason and then lets Biblicist get away with all this name-calling and rudeness. Is this not against the rules?
For no reason? Let anyone look at your responses to my post and see if they make any sense to anyone reading them!
I didnt' say you were stupid or a heretic! I said "you appear to be" but I don't know what your irrational and unreasonable responses should be attributed to.
However, even in my frustration to deal with a person who is characteristically irrational and unreasonable I should not have inferred you were "stupid." I should have simply said your responses are irrational and unreasonable.
I apologize for inferring you are stupid. However, I do believe you are a heretic.
savedbymercy
New Member
Everyone Christ died for are dead to the law by the Body of Christ, His Death. When someone Christ died for is born into this world a sinner, they are dead to the Law even then, it cannot condemn them, it has no power over them at all, they have been redeemed from it's curse Why ? Because Jesus Christ has by His Death, has already satisfied all of the Laws demands on their behalf, and God sees them for Christ's sake, as perfect law keepers, even when they are dead in trespasses and sins ! Rom 7:4
4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
In the New Testament, the New Covenant, we have Jesus' teachings, and these we are to obey, for in the New Testament, we have the PERFECT LAW.
James 1:25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does.
Why did you stop at verse 4????? Why? Because verses 5-6 exposes your theology as complete nonsense!
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Look at the time words ("when" "now" and "were").
"WHEN" we were in the flesh we were not dead to the law but the law was actively working death in us and that is what verse 5 says.
"NOW" refers "in the newnes of spirit" and to the time we were delivered from the law which is the time of "BEING DEAD" but that did not occur while we were "in the flesh."
So the context repudiates your theory altogether.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Because it gives a truth that you neglect ! Now how is mone dead to the Law ? Is it by something Christ did alone or not ?
Can anyone Christ died for, Satifisfied completely The Demands of God's Law for them, is it anytime in their history the Law can condemned them ?
Because it gives a truth that you neglect ! Now how is mone dead to the Law ? Is it by something Christ did alone or not ?
Can anyone Christ died for, Satifisfied completely The Demands of God's Law for them, is it anytime in their history the Law can condemned them ?
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You can't deal with verses 5-6 because it repudates your interpretation of verse 4. You can't deal with the tense and the clear and explicit denial by Paul of your absurd humanistic rationalism. If you could you would but you can't and so you don't! Just that simple!
savedbymercy
New Member
Now how is one dead to the Law ? Is it by something Christ did alone or not ?
Can anyone Christ died for, Satifisfied completely The Demands of God's Law for them, is it anytime in their history the Law can condemned them ?
I know you are scared to answer these questions, because they will exopose your error !