Dealing with Professing Believers Walking in Sin in Online Boards

[JonC]

On another board I am involved in a private discussion with a little under dozen members and a few staff regarding a man who exhibits questionable character. A few comments coupled with our sermon today led me to start this thread about how we deal with sin on an online forum.

The problem in that discussion became the fact that the Bible does not mention the internet. But Scripture does speak of how Christians are to behave towards one another, towards those “outside” (the World) and towards those who claim to be Christian while living a life of disobedience.

Initially I need to qualify that this type of thing does occur.

For this I am going to offer personal testimony about what has happened to me on another board (on a Christian board, not specifically talking about the Baptist Board).

I had a member of another board who has followed me for years (across boards) and has made it his mission to make false accusations and slander me. I am sure I am not alone. But for a long time I traded insults with him. That was wrong of me (sin is never the answer to sin). I withdrew from that person and forgave him. Yet he continued. He exhibited no indication that God has convicted him to repentance, no remorse over his actions, nothing. He was banned several times by the staff on that board and challenged for his disobedience. He simply does not care. It is about him, not about God. And not really about me. He stated that he has a need to be vindicated in public (pride).

I am not going to discuss anything about that man because some here may be members of that board as well. There are enough people who could fall into the category that I think his identity is save from all but speculation.

My point is that there are men and women who claim to be Christians but who continue to walk in darkness by evaluation of their online presence.

This is easy to dismiss, I suppose, because it is online rather than in person. But maybe this is why it is so dangerous. We see people for who they really are in these situations.

 

[JonC]

So first, I want to look to the Word and see what God has commanded.

Christian to Christian (Inside): After judging ourselves and making sure we are walking “in the Light”, we are to gently correct a Christian who may be sinning. This is done in the spirit of love. Towards one another we are to be loving, kind, tenderhearted, forgiving, without anger, slander, bitterness, and wrath.

Christian to Non-Christian (Outside): Christians are not to judge those outside the church (the World) but the behavior and doctrines of those who are in the church (1 Corinthians 5:12) and within our responsibility (Romans 14:4).

Christian to Professing Believer walking in sin (Inside physically, outside spiritually): When it comes to someone who claims to be a Christian but exhibits a wicket, unbelieving spirit we are to remove that person from fellowship. We are to view that person as less than the lost (do not even associate with this person). These are people who are unforgiving, slanderous, drunkards, swindlers, gossips, causing strife, bitterness, unkind, etc. and these people will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 5; Galatians 5).

Second, we need to consider the third group as this is the topic of the thread and the issue with which I’ve wrestled regarding a few members across several Christian forums. What can be said of those persons?

If they do not forgive then they will not be forgiven. This is horrible and does not always fit into our theology. But if a person does not forgive another person then God will not forgive them. (Matthew 6)

Outbursts of anger, strife, enmities, dissensions, disputes, and the like are “deeds of the flesh” and those who practice them are not led by the Spirit and will not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5).

Setting theology aside let’s just consider what the Bible says.

Joe cannot forgive Mike. The Bible says specifically that God will not forgive Christian Joe.

Joe slanders Mike, Joe is unkind, ungracious, insulting, etc. to Mike. Scripture calls Joe “wicked” and states that Joe “will not inherit the kingdom of God”.

It is a serous issue, per Scripture.

 

[JonC]

Third, we need to apply Scripture in our own lives.

When we encounter a professing believer who is unforgiving, slanderous, bitter, hateful, unkind, etc. and this is the mark of their conduct (this is something that they are unable to repent of) I believe that we are to “expel the wicked man” as best we can.

For me this means ignoring those members.

At one time I would challenge them, argue with them, defend myself, and unfortunately be sucked into their sin. I think that this is one reason we are to break off all association. They will bring down the Christian as to address them one enters into their wickedness.

But more importantly is God has commanded us not to associate with these types of people. We do not have a choice. And God did not make an exception for the internet.

I think that these boards would be better off if members would be faithful and ignore those who are "walking in darkness". I do not mean that we do not discuss and even argue things. And I do not mean that we ignore anyone who insults us or gets a little too "hot".

We have all probably insulted someone and argued more forcefully than is necessary. But for the most part I see members calming down and getting along afterwords. It is those few who cannot let lose of sin that I find troubling. On the other board I find the ignore feature very helpful. It is a way of "expelling the wicked man". Here I can't so much because I am on staff, but it really is not as big an issue as it is on other boards.

 

[canadyjd]

I think you are right to include an obligation on the part of believers to gently confront another believer, in private, whether you know them well or not. That obligation remains valid whether in person or online.

If they claim the name of Jesus, we must consider them brothers or sisters in Christ: realizing their open sin causes shame to the cause of Christ in the world.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

I think you are right to include an obligation on the part of believers to gently confront another believer, in private, whether you know them well or not. That obligation remains valid whether in person or online.

If they claim the name of Jesus, we must consider them brothers or sisters in Christ: realizing their open sin causes shame to the cause of Christ in the world.

peace to you

I agree.

I think the issue is more when they percist in sin. I know we are not a church family but perhaps what we need to do is control our own association with them.

Their open sin causes shame to the cause of Christ. But after confronting I think we'll meaning Christians cause damage by continuing to convince the sinner to repent.

I think there comes a time when we have to break association and leave them to God, hoping God will bring them to repentance.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

I think you are right to include an obligation on the part of believers to gently confront another believer, in private, whether you know them well or not. That obligation remains valid whether in person or online.

If they claim the name of Jesus, we must consider them brothers or sisters in Christ: realizing their open sin causes shame to the cause of Christ in the world.

peace to you

You said: "I think you are right to include an obligation on the part of believers to gently confront another believer..."

Below is one of a number of passages that reveals scripture does not support your position.

1Ti 6:3 KJV - If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 KJV - He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 KJV - Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Another:
2Th 3:6 KJV Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Until recently, I would have agreed with you.

 

[JonC]

You said: "I think you are right to include an obligation on the part of believers to gently confront another believer..."

Below is one of a number of passages that reveals scripture does not support your position.

1Ti 6:3 KJV - If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 KJV - He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 KJV - Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Another:
2Th 3:6 KJV Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Until recently, I would have agreed with you.

I think it depends on the situation (bear with me a moment).

Here is my understanding:

One member insults another. The appropriate response is gentle reproof (in private, then with others). The hope is forgiveness and a restoration of fellowship broken by sin.

But if the member clings to sin then the appropriate action is to sever association (to "expel the wicked man").

And you are correct because the OP is about people who claim Christ yet have an unforgiving, unrepentant spirit.


2 Timothy 2:24-26
The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by i him to do his will.

1 Corinthians 5:11-13
But actually, f I wrote to you not to associate with g any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler — not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES

 

[canadyjd]

I agree.

I think the issue is more when they percist in sin. I know we are not a church family but perhaps what we need to do is control our own association with them.

Their open sin causes shame to the cause of Christ. But after confronting I think we'll meaning Christians cause damage by continuing to convince the sinner to repent.

I think there comes a time when we have to break association and leave them to God, hoping God will bring them to repentance.

I occasionally worked with a young man many years ago and we had several thoughtful discussions on scripture.

If we weren’t talking scripture, I noticed he would talk about all the women he would pick up at bars.

It seemed odd to me, so I asked him one day, “do you fear God?” He responded that he did. I told him, “no you don’t, because if you did you wouldn’t be living like that!”

He seemed offended at first. I explained I considered him a brother in Christ and felt obligated to address this obvious sin.

I was stunned by his response. His pastor had told him that God understood that as a young man you needed to sow your wild oats so that when you got married you would be faithful to your wife.

I presented the biblical view and we had a civil discussion. I never saw him again, but about 5 years later he called me. I had placed my phone number in his bible and he came across it while studying John. He literally asked me what it meant to be “born from above”.

Praise God, thank you Jesus

peace to you

 

[evenifigoalone]

Commenting to follow the thread

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[JonC]

I think Paul speaks so harshly against professing Christians who walk in darkness because this not only damages the witness of faithful believers but it may also damage their spiritual walk.

I just think of the consequences - do not forgive men, the Father will not forgive you; slanderous people will not inherit the kingdom of God. These are damming words. But they are true words.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Ok. So here's my thing.
What if some believe you're "living in sin" and treat you either accordingly or very inhospitably, but you're actually not? But they insist that their treatment of you is justified because they still believe you are living in sin.
I suppose all that can be done in that case is to find somewhere else to fellowship

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[JonC]

Ok. So here's my thing.
What if some believe you're "living in sin" and treat you either accordingly or very inhospitably, but you're actually not? But they insist that their treatment of you is justified because they still believe you are living in sin.
I suppose all that can be done in that case is to find somewhere else to fellowship

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We have to be careful not to be hateful to other people (regardless of whether saved or lost). Hatred is never justified.

I believe the safest bet is to simply follow Scripture. If the "sin" us defined in the Bible as sin then confront the brother or sister. If they are persistent in sin then break off all association. Do not hate them. Do so that God will convict them.

At the same time we have to avoid legalism (condemning people for not meeting OUR expectations of them).

 

[evenifigoalone]

We have to be careful not to be hateful to other people (regardless of whether saved or lost). Hatred is never justified.

I believe the safest bet is to simply follow Scripture. If the "sin" us defined in the Bible as sin then confront the brother or sister. If they are persistent in sin then break off all association. Do not hate them. Do so that God will convict them.

At the same time we have to avoid legalism (condemning people for not meeting OUR expectations of them).

Ok, but what if they insist that they're correct in their interpretation of scripture and that you are sinning, when they are not correct and you are not sinning. Or whether the issue is a sin or not according to scripture isn't clearly laid out, and there's room for different interpretations.

 

[JonC]

As far as the OP goes, I think @Wesley Briggman is spot on. For me the best thing is to ignore these people. We cannot look to these men and women for spiritual insight because they are not walking in the Spirit. We cannot kerp on trying to change them because that is only something God can do. And we cannot pretend they belong among us because they slander the cross and put brethren at risk.

This is simpler in a congregation. It is less clear on discussion boards.

 

[JonC]

Ok, but what if they insist that they're correct in their interpretation of scripture and that you are sinning, when they are not correct and you are not sinning. Or whether the issue is a sin or not according to scripture isn't clearly laid out, and there's room for different interpretations.

There is room for interpretation when there is room for interpretation.

Botyom line is if you use a paper straw and they think it a sin, then you are better off separating from them anyway. God will sort this out in the end. We are responsible for our actions and not the actions of others. But we are also responsible for ignored truth, so we need to carefully and prayerfully consider what is said and weigh it with Scripture.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I guess that's where it gets difficult for me. I'm having to learn to accept that the injustices that have taken place by the hands of other believers--they think they did the right thing, and will likely always think that. It's just sad when it affected something that was important to me. An example would be when my family began mistreating me after I left the IFB sub-denomination and King James onlyism behind.

 

[JonC]

I guess that's where it gets difficult for me. I'm having to learn to accept that the injustices that have taken place by the hands of other believers--they think they did the right thing, and will likely always think that. It's just sad when it affected something that was important to me. An example would be when my family began mistreating me after I left the IFB sub-denomination and King James onlyism behind.

People can be cruel. Christians should not be. That said, sometimes what comes across as cruelty is not intended as such. Of course, sometimes it is.

People will let you down. Christ will not.

The member from that board I was speaking of was someone I considered a friend. I do not know why, but when I rejected one view he held he had a meltdown. Perhaps he felt I betrayed him, I don't know. But he made false accusations against me in an attempt to discredit me on that board. I responded to him poorly, allowing his sin to continue by joining him for a time.

But I have forgiven him. That is all I needed to do. Without that the Bible says the Father will not forgive me. The reason is my sin against God is greater than his sin against me.

Now I pity the man. I and a group from that board pray for him. But we have also had to leave him to God because he remains unrepentant to this day.

That is what I suggest you do. Forgive those who have acted against you unjustly. Pray for them. But let them go. Leave them to God. You will be the better for it.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I won't get into it here, but something happened with me about a month back. I'm not angry at the people involved, but it still hurts when I had had fellowship with and worked with them closely for several years. It, among other things, triggered my mental illness symptoms, and I've been in the midst of a depressive episode for the past month as a result. I'm not angry, I'm just still dealing with the mental fallout.

 

[JonC]

It is normal to feel hurt when people hurt you. I still feel hurt by my encounter. I think this is important.

Think of how people treated Christ. Our experiences do not compare (we cannot complain. But at the same time the injury we feel reinforces why it is essential to be obedient to God in how we treat other people.

Don't dwell on other people's sin, even their sin against you.

What I realized is my perception of the member who lied about me was wrong. He was never a friend. He was among us, but by his actions not a part of us. He is unforgiving and therefore unforgiven by God; unrepentant and slanderous, therefore he will not inherit the kingdom of God except God lead him to repentance. So I pray for him. Those in my group pray for him. The resources I have is my church (we have started back), a study group, Christian boards and Facebook. I use these in hope God will lead him to repentance and we will gain a brother. God has given me that burden.

I think that is where you need to be. Be truly burded for these people. Pray for them. You have an additional challenge of depression, but Jesus is strong where we are weak.

 

[JonC]

Back to the OP.

Another thing to consider is the spiritual maturity of people who act inappropriately to Christians.

There are areas where Christians can and should be able to work through ideas freely. Seminary is one place. But perhaps online forums can be as well.

I can understand how less mature believers can see this as an affront to their faith and want to censure or shut those views down.

It is difficult because discussion should take place, but at the same time such discussion can be a stumbling block to new believers.

I'd compare this difference to evaluating whether to recommend some works to a believer. A mature Christian may profit from C. S. Lewis, John Calvin, Wright, or Barth. But a less mature Christian could be misled.