Death with Dignity Laws or Legal Euthanasia

[matt wade]

The laws are called "death with diginty" because it is so much softer to the ear than "killed by your own doctor".

Call it killed by your own doctor if you want to...it doesn't bother me. I'm not worried about the name of it. I mean what are we, third graders here that need to debate over whether the name of something is good or not?

I also wonder why it is not considered dignified for someone to live out the end days of their life with quite acceptance of their condition and limitations?

Is it dignified to be in so much pain every day that you have to be hopped up on so many pain killers that you don't even know where you are? Should we be dignified enough to take all those pain killers for the rest of our life and sit around and be out of our mind?

You must have a strange definition of dignified (maybe OldRegular can hound you about that definition)...but dignified to me doesn't mean sitting around on pain medication hallucinating and acting like a loon bat.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Matt has it dead on (no pun intended). If I am suffering with no hope of improvement, whose business is it if I can quietly and peaceably make my exit. Some pain cannot be managed. There is nothing either dignified or noble about a lingering, painful demise. With machinery able to keep people's body's breathing after they would have died naturally, why prolong it for the person, or their family.

 

[targus]

Call it killed by your own doctor if you want to...it doesn't bother me. I'm not worried about the name of it. I mean what are we, third graders here that need to debate over whether the name of something is good or not?

My point is that those laws most likely would not have passed by a majority vote if they were titled "killed by your own doctor" instead of the comforting soothing title "death with dignity".

Is it dignified to be in so much pain every day that you have to be hopped up on so many pain killers that you don't even know where you are? Should we be dignified enough to take all those pain killers for the rest of our life and sit around and be out of our mind?

You must have a strange definition of dignified (maybe OldRegular can hound you about that definition)...but dignified to me doesn't mean sitting around on pain medication hallucinating and acting like a loon bat.

Dignity comes from within. It is a state of regard for ones self and recognizing the value of ones own personhood. It has nothing to do with your health, wealth, or station in life.

That you do not understand the concept of personal dignity explains your seeming disdain for the terminally ill.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

My point is that those laws most likely would not have passed by a majority vote if they were titled "killed by your own doctor" instead of the comforting soothing title "death with dignity".

You honestly believe the voters in Oregon & Washington did not know what the measures were about? Do you not think there were heated political ads day and night on both sides? The people have spoken. Why do you have disdain for the democratic process?

The choice is highly regulated. A person is not obligated to opt for dying. It is their choice. No one is forcing people to be put to death.

The choice lies with them...not me...not you. As it should be.

 

[targus]

You honestly believe the voters in Oregon & Washington did not know what the measures were about? Do you not think there were heated political ads day and night on both sides? The people have spoken. Why do you have disdain for the democratic process?

Please stay on topic.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Please stay on topic.

You raised the issue. Got no answer I see. Why is it your business what another person chooses in their own circumstances? That is germaine to the point.

Sidebar Rant ON: So-called conservatives say they are for smaller government, but from what I can see, it is just the opposite. They want:

- Government regulation over end of life decisions
- Government regulation over personal relationships
- Government regulation in what others may inhale, ingest, smoke, inject, or otherwise put into their own body
- Government regulation on what others may read or watch

Conservative? Hardly!

Sidebar Rant OFF

 

[matt wade]

Dignity comes from within. It is a state of regard for ones self and recognizing the value of ones own personhood. It has nothing to do with your health, wealth, or station in life.

That you do not understand the concept of personal dignity explains your seeming disdain for the terminally ill.

I have disdain for the terminally ill? How exactly is that? Because I want the terminally ill to have some choice in whether or not they want to continue living in misery? It's you that seems to have the disdain for them, since you don't believe they are capable of making a decision about their own life.

I may be tagging you wrong, but I thought you considered yourself a conservative. I guess your sense of personal responsibility stops when it comes to this issue. Do you have other liberal leaning tendencies such as requiring that I wear a seat belt, a helmet, or other personal safety devices?

How is someone killing themselves bothering you?

 

[annsni]

I will answer before reading the responses. If I'm out of turn - I'm sorry - I'll catch up and go wherever the thread is going, I promise.

Euthanasia was mentioned in another thread. Rather than hijack that one, let's talk about it here.

Washington and Oregon have Death with Dignity laws that allow a person to gain physician assistance in ending their suffering from a terminal and painful existence.

1. Do you see any instance, regardless of prognosis and intense pain & suffering, where you would support a person making this decision for themself?

No. I think we need to make sure we make dying less painful by giving someone medications to help their pain even if it means they will be addicted. My mother died a very painful death of breast cancer and the doctor didn't want to increase her pain meds because they were addictive. She was dying - died 2 weeks after we pushed hard enough to have the meds increased.

2. We don't allow our pets to suffer, but we do ourselves and our loved ones. Is this right?

Pets do not have a soul that has been saved by the blood of Jesus. They also do not pass on their wisdom, their strength and their testimony of God's faithfulness to others. For those who are not saved, assisted suicide is condemning someone to hell before their time.

3. How is this different than withdrawing a patient from a respirator, and denying them nutrition and other means of keeping their bodies alive via machine?

I feel that denying nutrition and hydration is cruel and uncalled for. Every human being alive today will die without nutrition and hydration. Do it to your child and it's called abuse and murder. Do it to someone dying and it's called dignity. I think it's murder across the board.

As for the respirator, if a person is brain dead, they are dead. Withdrawing machines will allow their body to do what it should do. However, not everyone on a respirator is brain dead and a respirator is a very important tool for those who are critically ill.

 

[OldRegular]

If a doctor willingly decides to give such aid, I don't think it is dragging them into it.

You are entitled to express your opinion even if wrong. It is not the task of doctors to take life but to save life. If you can't take what life hands out than end it yourself.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Ann, thank you for your reasoned response. It sets an example of what I had hoped to see.

 

[OldRegular]

Matt has it dead on (no pun intended). If I am suffering with no hope of improvement, whose business is it if I can quietly and peaceably make my exit. Some pain cannot be managed. There is nothing either dignified or noble about a lingering, painful demise. With machinery able to keep people's body's breathing after they would have died naturally, why prolong it for the person, or their family.

Then go ahead and end your misery. Don't drag someone else into your suicide, just put a gun to your head or save up enough pain pills to do the job. Don't try to dignify suicide by calling it death with dignity.

Of course if you fail and the legals find out they will lock you up in many states. Strange isn't it. Just no freedom at all.

 

[annsni]

OK - Looked through the thread - didn't miss much.

My mother died of breast cancer. The cancer spread to her ribs and her spine and she was in great pain every day. There were times that she cried out to God without an apparent answer to her pain. But in those days, I was able to minister to her - and she was able to minister to me. We shared memories. I helped to bathe her. I fed her. She prayed for me and my children. She wrote letters to each of her children in those last days that will forever be precious to me.

In the last 2 days of her life, she was basically in a coma and no longer responded to me but when I sat next to her bed and spoke to her, prayed with her and read the Scriptures to her, her blood pressure went down, her heart rate slowed and she was at peace. When I left, I could see those things going back up again. She ended up passing away with 4 of her dear friends standing over her bed praying for her. THAT was a death with dignity. It was one that was orchestrated by God to glorify Him in my life, my mother's life, my father's life, my saved brother's life - and gave us an opportunity to once again give the gospel message to my unsaved brother. What would have happened if we killed her off weeks before??

 

[OldRegular]

Again, stop your derail attempts. The name of the law has no bearing on the issues. The law is known as that. From Wikipedia:

Death with Dignity Act may refer to:

• Oregon Death with Dignity Act
• Initiative 1000, Washington's Death With Dignity Initiative

i am not trying to derail the thread, I cannot come up to your expertise in doing that. I am simply trying to get you to tell what death with dignity means to you.

Frankly I don't care what wikipedia says. Suicide, assisted or not, bloody or not, is not death with dignity.

 

[OldRegular]

For the third or fourth time...that is not the question in the OP. Stay on topic, or leave the thread and start your own.

How can anyone discuss death with dignity if they don't know what it is?

 

[OldRegular]

The laws are called "death with diginty" because it is so much softer to the ear than "killed by your own doctor".

I also wonder why it is not considered dignified for someone to live out the end days of their life with quite acceptance of their condition and limitations?

I assume from Matt Wade and Magnetic Poles that death with dignity is having a serial killer like Dr. Death of Michigan fame come in and help you do something you don't have the intestinal fortitude [must be dignified in discussing death with dignity] to do themselves.

Apparently these people do not understand that God, not Dr. Death wherever he is, is in control.

 

[OldRegular]

Dignity comes from within. It is a state of regard for ones self and recognizing the value of ones own personhood. It has nothing to do with your health, wealth, or station in life.

That you do not understand the concept of personal dignity explains your seeming disdain for the terminally ill.

Thank you very much targus for bringing some, may i use the word "dignity", to this nonsensical discussion!

 

[OldRegular]

OK - Looked through the thread - didn't miss much.

My mother died of breast cancer. The cancer spread to her ribs and her spine and she was in great pain every day. There were times that she cried out to God without an apparent answer to her pain. But in those days, I was able to minister to her - and she was able to minister to me. We shared memories. I helped to bathe her. I fed her. She prayed for me and my children. She wrote letters to each of her children in those last days that will forever be precious to me.

In the last 2 days of her life, she was basically in a coma and no longer responded to me but when I sat next to her bed and spoke to her, prayed with her and read the Scriptures to her, her blood pressure went down, her heart rate slowed and she was at peace. When I left, I could see those things going back up again. She ended up passing away with 4 of her dear friends standing over her bed praying for her. THAT was a death with dignity. It was one that was orchestrated by God to glorify Him in my life, my mother's life, my father's life, my saved brother's life - and gave us an opportunity to once again give the gospel message to my unsaved brother. What would have happened if we killed her off weeks before??

Thank you Ann for your heart warming story. Perhaps it is strange that I should call it that but I do.

My mother died at 97 from congestive heart failure. All the living brothers and one sister were with her in the hospital. They had ask me not to come in because I had some heart problems. I went in anyway. When I walked into the hospital room she looked around and counted and was satisfied. Some time later that day [Wednesday] she went into a coma. Her doctor of many years stated he could not hear any activity in the lungs yet she still lived. God took her on Monday morning.

I believe that calling assisted suicide death with dignity is ridiculous. God gave us life and I believe that he intends that we cherish that life. However, in time death will come to all. To me death with dignity is being ready to meet God in whatever circumstances He may choose, understanding that: Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints.

 

[Amy.G]

This "death with dignity law" is nothing more than assisted suicide, which is still suicide.

There is NO dignity in killing yourself, assisted or otherwise.

My uncle killed himself a few years ago due to his perceived failure as a human being because of alcoholism. I see no difference in his reason for suicide and a terminally ill person. Both have decided their life if worthless. But life is never worthless to God and as long as there is life there is hope for either recovery or the influence one can give to others through their death, as was the case with Ann's mother.


I also think of the life of Paul. He was tortured, beaten and eventually beheaded, but he endured it all. He could have committed suicide, knowing that he was going to the sword, but instead he died a martyr's death and glorified God. I think we should do the same.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

OR, you are spamming the thread with your inane comments to keep the discussion from occurring. I ask again that you cease this. The phrase is the name of the law. The topic is clearly laid out in the OP. It is about the issues, NOT the name of the law. You are purposefully ruining the thread and acting troll-like.

 

[Revmitchell]

1. Do you see any instance, regardless of prognosis and intense pain & suffering, where you would support a person making this decision for themself?

None

2. We don't allow our pets to suffer, but we do ourselves and our loved ones. Is this right?

Comparing people to pets is apples and refrigerators. They were not made in the image of God.

3. How is this different than withdrawing a patient from a respirator, and denying them nutrition and other means of keeping their bodies alive via machine?

We should never withdraw someone from a respirator unless there is no brain activity, we should never withhold nutrition, and machines should be used again so long as the brain is active. In other words they should already be dead before we withdraw life saving options. The Terri Schivo case was murder and so is assisting suicide.