Debit/Credit Card 3 digit security codes AND the anti-christ

[12strings]

Why are there so many reformed on this website?

Well, the recent poll put it at about 1/3 reformed, 2/3 un-reformed (if you want to label it that way)...We are just LOUDER

Also, I repeat my initial question...if credit cards will be used to track us by the anit-christ, what difference does it make to how I live my life following Christ? Is there some sin I will be commiting if I fail to make this connection? Or will I be failing to obey some command in scripture if I don't think credit cards will be used this way? Why does it matter?

 

[HankD]

Well, the recent poll put it at about 1/3 reformed, 2/3 un-reformed (if you want to label it that way)...We are just LOUDER

Also, I repeat my initial question...if credit cards will be used to track us by the anit-christ, what difference does it make to how I live my life following Christ? Is there some sin I will be commiting if I fail to make this connection? Or will I be failing to obey some command in scripture if I don't think credit cards will be used this way? Why does it matter?

If a tracking devcice is all it is, then IMO, no.

But receiving the mark of the beast (presumably the antichrist) may be symbolic of those adopting the thoughts (forehead) and committing the deeds (hand) of the antichrist.

That is - when one's thoughts and deeds are antichrist in nature then those are his because they bear his brand.

Not too probable of a believer.

HankD

 

[Iconoclast]

Do any of you notice that MOST websites require you to enter your 3 digit security code found on the back of your Debit/Credit Cards when making a purchase online or donating money? This is setting the stage for the coming Tribulation and the anti-christ whom will mandate everyone to get his number 666, and those without the number will not be able to buy or sell. 3 digit debit/CC codes was not required online just 5 years ago,and things have already changed. I think its very important to not only be in the word when studying Biblical prophecy but also to be looking at the news, and doing research online. The day is coming and the rapture of the church is next!

EV
You are repeating the premill teaching that is popular today, but not with everyone. Many do not think this is at all correct.

I think its very important to not only be in the word when studying Biblical prophecy but also to be looking at the news, and doing research online

We do not look to newspapers to figure out prophecy...we look to the word of God.

Being marked on the forehead????

Ezekiel 9

King James Version (KJV)


1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

Evangelist----- was this a literal mark???/or spiritual only seen by the angel who came to destroy??? was it literal in the physical realm to the naked eye??

 

[Amy.G]

I would still like to know how the cards that require a 4 digit security code fit in to this???

 

[preachinjesus]

I would still like to know how the cards that require a 4 digit security code fit in to this???

They're only held by people who will be taken up in the rapture...or the first part of the split rapture...:saint:

 

[evangelist6589]

You know I am having a blast and learning allot. I am learning so much that I am going to re-read the books I have been reading which are as follows.

The King is Coming-Erwin Lutzer
The second Coming-John MacArthur
Until Christ Returns-David Jeremiah

All three are laymen level, however MacArthur is the most informative. In the Lutzer reading I just did he was talking about the invasion of Israel and Russia being Gog and so forth. Lutzer has found many correlations in the news and what not that helps identify the nations that will invade Israel. I compared what Lutzer has written to David Jeremiah's What in the World is going on Book and found many similarities in the interpretation. It us true that Russia will be aiding Muslim countries to attack Israel. I have many particulars and details in the books that I cannot give at this time, but they are there if you want them. The book is FREE with a donation.

The Jeremiah book When Christ Returns is more application based and Jeremiah has many stories to tell of people that ignore prophecy. Those in Noah's day ignored him, and were swept away. A man whom lived in the mountains of Mt. Saint Helens avoiding many warnings before the volcano irrupted and he died.

I also can tell a story of a frog that jumped in a pool and swam around like nothing was wrong. This frog was having a blast and finally had a body of water without visible danger as no snakes went into the pool. but what the frog missed was the invisible chlorine that eventually kill the frog. This frog spiritualized the danger and said they were not real. But this frog was wrong and died. In the same way those that spiritualize everything will be wrong in the end. Please do not be that frog!


John

EV
You are repeating the premill teaching that is popular today, but not with everyone. Many do not think this is at all correct.



We do not look to newspapers to figure out prophecy...we look to the word of God.

Being marked on the forehead????



Evangelist----- was this a literal mark???/or spiritual only seen by the angel who came to destroy??? was it literal in the physical realm to the naked eye??

 

[Greektim]

You know I am having a blast and learning allot. I am learning so much that I am going to re-read the books I have been reading which are as follows.

The King is Coming-Erwin Lutzer
The second Coming-John MacArthur
Until Christ Returns-David Jeremiah

All three are laymen level, however MacArthur is the most informative. In the Lutzer reading I just did he was talking about the invasion of Israel and Russia being Gog and so forth. Lutzer has found many correlations in the news and what not that helps identify the nations that will invade Israel. I compared what Lutzer has written to David Jeremiah's What in the World is going on Book and found many similarities in the interpretation. It us true that Russia will be aiding Muslim countries to attack Israel. I have many particulars and details in the books that I cannot give at this time, but they are there if you want them. The book is FREE with a donation.

The Jeremiah book When Christ Returns is more application based and Jeremiah has many stories to tell of people that ignore prophecy. Those in Noah's day ignored him, and were swept away. A man whom lived in the mountains of Mt. Saint Helens avoiding many warnings before the volcano irrupted and he died.

I also can tell a story of a frog that jumped in a pool and swam around like nothing was wrong. This frog was having a blast and finally had a body of water without visible danger as no snakes went into the pool. but what the frog missed was the invisible chlorine that eventually kill the frog. This frog spiritualized the danger and said they were not real. But this frog was wrong and died. In the same way those that spiritualize everything will be wrong in the end. Please do not be that frog!


John

This is what is called "newspaper exegesis".

And FYI, nobody "spiritualize everything". But, the apostles did not interpret the OT literally as you would argue. So why should we?

 

[preachinjesus]

Ah, good, actual interaction and not just pointless rambling...

Hi preachinjesus

The word "antichrist" appears 5 times in the Bible.

Well it only occurs in 4 places and all are relegated to two later epistles from John. This should be concerning for anyone attempting to show that there is a singular figure identified as such.

Four in the singular, once as plural.

In every occurence of the singular the definite article is used in reference to "antichrist" in the koine Greek.

1 John 2:18 is really the more important verse here as John uses both the singular and plural. Of course just saying that means little since we understand Greek (and English) through context as well as translation.

Here notice the text indicates that some are saying there is an antiChrist but John then notes that there are many actually many antiChrists. This then should inform our understanding of vs 22, that those who deny Christ carry the spirit of antiChrist with them. This corresponds with 4:3 that speaks about the spirit and not necessarily an individual.

The final verse, 2 John 7, speaks along the same lines, contrasting many antiChrists with individual expression.

Now you can get an antiChrist but it requires a limited view of eschatology and that has its own problems. Frankly, too often I think we confuse the Devil with this notion of an antiChrist.

Though use of the definite article as a generic reference is possible, a singular identifiable entity is the most probable meaning IMO.​

"many antichrists" presumably then would be used in the sense of his/its forerunners.​

Yeah this is where dispensational hermeneutics gets off track. You have to force a read onto the text and then qualify it by saying there are many antiChrists, generationally, but until the end there won't be the final one raised up. So in order for the "Man of Perdition" to rise up requires God's authorization.

Of course believers won't be around for this...yet dispensationalists are rather caught up with identifying the antiChrist. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[preachinjesus]

I disagree with this. One does not need to "spiritualize" the text as many Reformed do.

Well its not necessarily a spiritualized hermeneutic. You can also take a historicist view of the text.

I don't understand the reformed moniker either. You don't have to be reformed to come to these theological conclusions. I'm not reformed. My eschatological schema is historical premillennialism. I take an idealist-futurist read of Revelation. When we go around manipulating Scripture to try to fit our eschatological scheme over the contemporary events we end up losing focus on what the eschaton is about.

One of the greatest damages to the theological credibility of evangelicalism has been the rampant speculations of people like Hal Lindsey (who finds the rapture behind every terrorist at this point) and Tim LaHaye (you can always make money off the end of the world.) Instead of sober reflection, handling Scripture with care, being mindful of the eschatological expectation of the first century beleivers who wrote these words, we end up abusing the Scriptures and making ourselves look like fools year after year.

Personally I think over-realized Jewish eschatology of the Second Temple apocalyptic period has more to do with how Revelation is shaped than 21st century dispensational premillennialism.

 

[Iconoclast]

You know I am having a blast and learning allot. I am learning so much that I am going to re-read the books I have been reading which are as follows.

The King is Coming-Erwin Lutzer
The second Coming-John MacArthur
Until Christ Returns-David Jeremiah

All three are laymen level, however MacArthur is the most informative. In the Lutzer reading I just did he was talking about the invasion of Israel and Russia being Gog and so forth. Lutzer has found many correlations in the news and what not that helps identify the nations that will invade Israel. I compared what Lutzer has written to David Jeremiah's What in the World is going on Book and found many similarities in the interpretation. It us true that Russia will be aiding Muslim countries to attack Israel. I have many particulars and details in the books that I cannot give at this time, but they are there if you want them. The book is FREE with a donation.

The Jeremiah book When Christ Returns is more application based and Jeremiah has many stories to tell of people that ignore prophecy. Those in Noah's day ignored him, and were swept away. A man whom lived in the mountains of Mt. Saint Helens avoiding many warnings before the volcano irrupted and he died.

I also can tell a story of a frog that jumped in a pool and swam around like nothing was wrong. This frog was having a blast and finally had a body of water without visible danger as no snakes went into the pool. but what the frog missed was the invisible chlorine that eventually kill the frog. This frog spiritualized the danger and said they were not real. But this frog was wrong and died. In the same way those that spiritualize everything will be wrong in the end. Please do not be that frog!


John

your frog story does not answer the verses offered,or the question.if you cannot respond, why did you start the thread?

ps....rosh does not mean russia....

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

You are free to listen to the Podcast if you wish.

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/1290/a-jet-tour-through-revelation

Nothing there supports your contention about the CCV code, only that the credit card companies et al have access to our spending habits. Everyone knows that. It has nothing to do at all with the CCV code being the mark of the beast and Dr McArthur made no such claim.

 

[markwaltermd]

I have a lot of respect for Dr. MacArthur, and I've never heard him make such a wildly speculative claim (i.e., the 3-digit code stamping the mark of the beast). I was quick to look this up to see if I might be disappointed. I agree with others who have said that the transcript of this sermon does not support the statement that Dr. MacArthur made this contention. If you're interested in his eschatological views, have you read his Because The Time is Near?

 

[asterisktom]

You know I am having a blast and learning allot. I am learning so much that I am going to re-read the books I have been reading which are as follows

....

I also can tell a story of a frog that jumped in a pool and swam around like nothing was wrong. This frog was having a blast and finally had a body of water without visible danger as no snakes went into the pool. but what the frog missed was the invisible chlorine that eventually kill the frog. This frog spiritualized the danger and said they were not real. But this frog was wrong and died. In the same way those that spiritualize everything will be wrong in the end. Please do not be that frog!


John

Whoa. Now I get your point.
You are having a blast.
The frog in the pool was having a blast.
Well, right up until he died - from invisible chlorine.
Dispensational teaching is like invisible chlorine.

Friend, you better get out of that pool!

 

[HankD]

Ah, good, actual interaction and not just pointless rambling...

Well it only occurs in 4 places and all are relegated to two later epistles from John. This should be concerning for anyone attempting to show that there is a singular figure identified as such.

It's used twice in 1 John 2:18.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.​

Then 3 more times:​

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.​

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.​

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.​

Which adds up to 5.

1 John 2:18 is really the more important verse here as John uses both the singular and plural. Of course just saying that means little since we understand Greek (and English) through context as well as translation.

Here notice the text indicates that some are saying there is an antiChrist but John then notes that there are many actually many antiChrists. This then should inform our understanding of vs 22, that those who deny Christ carry the spirit of antiChrist with them. This corresponds with 4:3 that speaks about the spirit and not necessarily an individual.

The final verse, 2 John 7, speaks along the same lines, contrasting many antiChrists with individual expression.

Now you can get an antiChrist but it requires a limited view of eschatology and that has its own problems. Frankly, too often I think we confuse the Devil with this notion of an antiChrist.

Maybe, but who else then?

The devil (the father of lies) is at the top of the list of "anti"christs, no?

"anti" having the meaning of both "against" and "in place of"

Yeah this is where dispensational hermeneutics gets off track. You have to force a read onto the text and then qualify it by saying there are many antiChrists, generationally, but until the end there won't be the final one raised up. So in order for the "Man of Perdition" to rise up requires God's authorization.

Well, this is not a concept isolated to the "man of perdition".

There is the "beast" of Revelation. True an association between "antichrist" and "beast" of Revelation chapters 11 and 13 must be made.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.​

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?​

These are antichrists in the sense that they are worshipped as gods (instead of the Triune God).

Revelation 13:11 completes the unholy trinity (the dragon, the beast and the false prophet):

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.​

Of course believers won't be around for this...yet dispensationalists are rather caught up with identifying the antiChrist. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Oh, we will "be around" just not in the place to receive of the wrath of God.

Also:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:​

As an incentive to this righteousness in 2 Timothy 3:16:​

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.​

In the context of one of the "antichrist" chapters:​

1 John 2
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.​

HankD​

 

[evangelist6589]

Nothing there supports your contention about the CCV code, only that the credit card companies et al have access to our spending habits. Everyone knows that. It has nothing to do at all with the CCV code being the mark of the beast and Dr McArthur made no such claim.

Well what he did say on 1 podcast (which may not be in transcript format) was that the security code on the back of the card made it easy for the anti-christ to know who you are. I thought I had found the right podcast but it appears I did not. Or perhaps I misunderstood him.

 

[evangelist6589]

I have a lot of respect for Dr. MacArthur, and I've never heard him make such a wildly speculative claim (i.e., the 3-digit code stamping the mark of the beast). I was quick to look this up to see if I might be disappointed. I agree with others who have said that the transcript of this sermon does not support the statement that Dr. MacArthur made this contention. If you're interested in his eschatological views, have you read his Because The Time is Near?

It appears I was misunderstood, or I did not communicate properly.

Do any of you notice that MOST websites require you to enter your 3 digit security code found on the back of your Debit/Credit Cards when making a purchase online or donating money? This is setting the stage for the coming Tribulation and the anti-christ whom will mandate everyone to get his number 666, and those without the number will not be able to buy or sell. 3 digit debit/CC codes was not required online just 5 years ago,and things have already changed. I think its very important to not only be in the word when studying Biblical prophecy but also to be looking at the news, and doing research online. The day is coming and the rapture of the church is next!

The Anti Christ can use your CC to find out who you are. Do you know anything about RFID tags and chips? The anti-christ will no doubt be implanting RFID chips into the skins of people to track them everywhere.

 

[12strings]

Well what he did say on 1 podcast (which may not be in transcript format) was that the security code on the back of the card made it easy for the anti-christ to know who you are. I thought I had found the right podcast but it appears I did not.

And here I though it was the fact that the Credit Card companies have my FULL NAME PRINTED RIGHT THERE ON THE CARD.

Btw, I looked up guitar strap buttons on Amazon yesterday, and for the last 24 hours I have been seeing guitar strap button advertisements on every website I visit (including this one). Weird.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Well what he did say on 1 podcast (which may not be in transcript format) was that the security code on the back of the card made it easy for the anti-christ to know who you are. I thought I had found the right podcast but it appears I did not. Or perhaps I misunderstood him.

There are only 1000 possible CCV codes (000-999). That means that thousands of people share the same codes. I don't see that is going to help anyone as you suggest.

 

[evangelist6589]

There are only 1000 possible CCV codes (000-999). That means that thousands of people share the same codes. I don't see that is going to help anyone as you suggest.

They may share the same code, but the card numbers will be different.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Instead of guessing and conjecture about what 'what might be' are we not better off the heed the word of God as we look forward to Christ's coming?

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.