Decisional Regeneration Take 2

[ReformedBaptist]

Separated from God and anything righteous...not unable to respond to God's calling.

As you know, the Scripture speaks often of the calling of God, and those whom God called. What is your understanding of it? What happens first when God comes to a lost man, what is happening?

These are the things we have tried to explain from Scripture. What is your view?

 

[Jarthur001]

Separated from God and anything righteous...not unable to respond to God's calling.

when you say separated from God, does this mean away from God? In other words...some see Hell as this...apart from God. Is this what your claims are?

 

[webdog]

As you know, the Scripture speaks often of the calling of God, and those whom God called. What is your understanding of it? What happens first when God comes to a lost man, what is happening?

These are the things we have tried to explain from Scripture. What is your view?

Please describe which calling you are speaking of? It is used to describe different meanings ("many are called, few are chosen", "...called according to His purpose", etc.)

 

[webdog]

when you say separated from God, does this mean away from God? In other words...some see Hell as this...apart from God. Is this what your claims are?

Hell is where the spiritually dead...spiritually separated...will end up. Those individuals are currently spiritually dead. I'm not understanding what you are asking.

 

[Jarthur001]

Hell is where the spiritually dead...spiritually separated...will end up. Those individuals are currently spiritually dead. I'm not understanding what you are asking.

I see a major hole in your doctrine. But I must be clear before I show you.

So lets not talk in general, but fine detail.

You said spiritually dead simply means separated from God. I'm trying to get your full understanding of "separated". So how bad is this separation?

1) he is not a believe
2) he sins.

Can he pray to God?
Can he talk with God other then asking to be saved?
Can he understand Gods Word?

Does separated mean they cannot be in the same room?

 

[Amy.G]

Can I jump in? OK.

Dead in sin=a slave to sin and not only that but due the penalty of sin as well. The wages of sin is death eternal.

Dead to sin=alive in Christ (eternal life), not a slave to sin and not under the penalty of sin (eternal death).

What think ye?

 

[Brother Bob]

Rom 7:9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Luk 5:32I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jhn 1:9[That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Dead in sin, is they are unsaved. The above scripture tell that they indeed are lighted by the light. They indeed are called. They indeed are dead in sin.

Only one way out.


Rom 6:4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

[Jarthur001]

Can I jump in? OK.

Dead in sin=a slave to sin and not only that but due the penalty of sin as well. The wages of sin is death eternal.

Dead to sin=alive in Christ (eternal life), not a slave to sin and not under the penalty of sin (eternal death).

What think ye?

sure jump in...but because you are late to the party...the donuts are on your bill.

Amy let me ask you something. Now some people do not think dead means dead. Or as webdog says...dead does not mean a corpse.

1) Do you know of any person, dog, cat, fish or rat, that does not have a corpse when they are dead?

2) other then Christ, do you know of a dead person, dog, cat, fish or rat that has made himself alive?

3) have you ever played witness to a dead person, dog, cat, fish or rat that will come to you if you call it?

4) if you used the world larges boss speaker system, with 1000000000000000000000000000 mhz of power, would that dead person, dog, cat,fish or rat hear you?

5) how about if you pinched him/her?

6) kick maybe? any reply yet?

ok....if God wanted us to believe we were a corpse....what better word could He use? I think dead means dead.

If God wanted us to think we were not a corpse....how about we are sick......but not dead. would that work?

 

[Brother Bob]

Rom 7:9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Apparently I don't count, but Paul was dead in sin and still able to persecute the church of God.

 

[Jarthur001]

Apparently I don't count, but Paul was dead in sin and still able to persecute the church of God.

Good point, and this would also fall hand in hand with being DEAD spiritually. Paul was no made alive till when? Was the choice to awaken Paul to the truth Paul's or Gods?

 

[Amy.G]

James, since today was payday, I'll buy you a donut.

I understand what you mean about being dead. I agree that God did a work in my heart and all of a sudden I was different, but if we use the same definition of dead for "in" sin when we say "to" sin, wouldn't it mean that if we were dead "to" sin that we wouldn't sin anymore?

I'm not sure if that makes sense or not. Hopefully, you can decipher it.

 

[Brother Bob]

Good point, and this would also fall hand in hand with being DEAD spiritually. Paul was no made alive till when? Was the choice to awaken Paul to the truth Paul's or Gods?__________________

Nice try James,, but you can't equate Paul with everyone for He was a chosen vessel. He was one of the predestinated of God to carry out His plan Of Salvation. He indeed was spiritual dead and still could hear God, for when God spoke to him, he said "who art thou Lord". Apparently he knew who He was, for he called Him Lord. When the scales fell, so he was no longer blind, was when he was made alive in Christ Jesus, raised to walk a newness of life.

 

[npetreley]

Nice try James,, but you can't equate Paul with everyone for He was a chosen vessel. He was one of the predestinated of God to carry out His plan Of Salvation. He indeed was spiritual dead and still could hear God, for when God spoke to him, he said "who art thou Lord". Apparently he knew who He was, for he called Him Lord. When the scales fell, so he was no longer blind, was when he was made alive in Christ Jesus, raised to walk a newness of life.

Okay, so you're saying this is an exception to the rule. But you're admitting that God actually chooses someone who didn't choose Him first? You're saying that God actually "violates" someone's free will, even if it's an exception to the rule? God is not the "perfect gentleman", after all, but an "imperfect gentleman"?

 

[Brother Bob]

Paul said "dead to sin" Amy was exactly that.

Rom 6:2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

But there is a sin not unto death that we do commit.

 

[Brother Bob]

Okay, so you're saying this is an exception to the rule. But you're admitting that God actually chooses someone who didn't choose Him first? You're saying that God actually "violates" someone's free will, even if it's an exception to the rule? God is not the "perfect gentleman", after all, but an "imperfect gentleman"?

Yes, and I also believe the Apostles were predestinated to carry out the plan of Salvation.
God don't violate anything though Npet; if we have freewill, its because God gave it to us. If we were predestinated for a purpose, its because God did it.

 

[Jarthur001]

James, since today was payday, I'll buy you a donut.

I understand what you mean about being dead. I agree that God did a work in my heart and all of a sudden I was different, but if we use the same definition of dead for "in" sin when we say "to" sin, wouldn't it mean that if we were dead "to" sin that we wouldn't sin anymore?

I'm not sure if that makes sense or not. Hopefully, you can decipher it.

I can see why you say this, but I see it another way.


However, because I do not like to address statements and find later I cannot back up my own claims, what passage do you feel may support your views.

 

[Amy.G]

I can see why you say this, but I see it another way.


However, because I do not like to address statements and find later I cannot back up my own claims, what passage do you feel may support your views.

:laugh: I don't have any! I was asking how you see it.

 

[Jarthur001]

Yes, and I also believe the Apostles were predestinated to carry out the plan of Salvation.
God don't violate anything though Npet; if we have freewill, its because God gave it to us. If we were predestinated for a purpose, its because God did it.

well bob...i have to hand it to you. You did not run from the plain truth. At least we both agree God elected Paul. Now I happen to believe God does this to all that believe. I also understand you do not.

 

[Brother Bob]

well bob...i have to hand it to you. You did not run from the plain truth. At least we both agree God elected Paul. Now I happen to believe God does this to all that believe. I also understand you do not.

Thats correct James;

Here is you one Amy, if you want to use it.

Rom 6:2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[Amy.G]

Thats correct James;

Here is you one Amy, if you want to use it.

Rom 6:2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Well, if God steps in as in Paul's case, and "violates our free will" as NP said, then it stands to reason that He would step in and stop us from committing sins, at least some of them. However, I know that we sin even though we are saved. How far will God let us fall is the question.