Decisional Regeneration

1. Amy, How can Joseph say to his brothers, "You meant it for evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result"?

2. His brothers were evil, yet God work out His plan through their evil.

3. Amy, "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen. (Romans 11:33-36, NASB, emphasis mine)

4. At the end of the day, we just have to lift our hands and worship God, for his ways are beyond us.

 

Does anything happen without the knowledge of God in advance of the happening? If the answer is No, then that is what we mean by Decreed.

 

I agree that God's character never comes into question. So please know that however we may disagree, that I believe that God is completely sovereign and I never challenge that.
God did not author the sins of those who crucified Christ, which means they did it of their own free will. He did not author the sin of Adam, which also means that he did it of his own free will. I believe free will is a part of us that was created in the image of God.
But our free will also falls within the sovereignty of God. We are only as free as God allows (or decrees ).

 

In that we are in total agreement. Amen!

 

1. Did God know that sinful men were going to crucify His Son?

2. Did God author sin?

Yes.

What do you mean by yes?

Because God is sovereign and nothing happens without his permission, by that we mean God decreed.

3. Amos asks, "If a calamity occurs in a city has not the Lord done it? The answer is a resounding Yes.

4. You have just affirmed the sovereignty of God over human responsibility and that is why God turned bad to good for his good pleasure (Gen 50:20; Isa.53:10; Acts 4:27, 28).

 

I have been labeled hyper-Calvinist on this board, and there be some here who have hinted at me being outright heretical, but for the life of me, I cannot understand how God can glory in creating Adam and decreeing, that is foreordaining, in other words, setting events into motion, in which Adam will finally and without fail sin against Him, so that He will have to banish Adam from the garden, and in turn impute upon every one of Adam's descendant Adam's sin, and cause everyone to be born fallen, corrupt, and depraved, necessitating His putting on the form of a slave, and taking upon Himself the punishment of those whom He designed to save from eternity past, thru a covenant with Himself, delighting in His own death in the body of His eternal Son, in order for Him to have a people unto Himself who will praise His riches in mercy for generations ?

I cannot understand that. I do not see Scripture that makes God at once both the author and punisher of sin in light of such Scriptures as pointed out by those on this board, such as Scriptures that state that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked !!

For Him to foreordain Adam's fall and sin, and pass on this depravity to others, and then say that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, makes Him a HYPOCRITE !

Please do not justify such monstrous doctrine with pat references to God's "mysterious" ways and God's sovereignty (which no one denies).

I believe that, although God foresaw and foreknew that Adam will fall, it was not because He had set in motion certain events to transpire that will ensure Adam's fall.

I believe that the reason Adam fell, was because "dust thou art", that is, he was taken from dust, from the earth, although created perfect and without sin, until his predisposition to sin, bore witness to God's holiness, being the only One in this entire Universe, which He brought into existence, that was self-existent, therefore absolutely pure and holy.

Further more, I dare not proceed at this point.

 

Point well taken about the Acts 4 referance.

 

Please continue. This is how I see it too.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with a hyper-C!

:tongue3:

 

I'd like to get into the issue of how someone decides differently with you. Just how is that?

skypair

 

Quoting you again cause that was well said! Bless you, brother!

skypair

 

We try to stay REAL on this board. Let's not spoil the moment.

Some people believe because they are CONVICTED -- some are not. You know -- John 16:8-10. "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;"

Is that not good enough for you?

skypair

 

That's "lawyer-speak" for God sovereignly created sin "by decree" (so it's alright) and He violently has to snatch the "elect" from their natural course in life to save them.

skypair

 

Yeah -- by OBEYING God and trusting in His promises!

 

Another classic line of misrepresentation courtesy of our high-flyin' friend SP . In his garbled world of interpretation he said : " ... He violently has to snatch the elect" from their natural course in life to save them." Hmmm , what Calvinist has uttered this stupidity ? O , that's right . It came from the mind of SP !

 

LOL - sure, no problem. If it wasn't for BB I'd be bored to death sometimes, waiting on something to break.

 

Denial is not a river in Egypt. The hardest thing for an alcholic to do is to admit they are an alcholic in need of help.

The hardest thing for a sinner to do is to admit they are a sinner.

We can be like Adam and Eve and find out how we can blame other for our problem like God in this case or blame ourselves for we are where the problem lies. It has nothing to do with God, because He wants all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth..