Decisional Regeneration

1. When Jesus said to Nicodemus you must be "born again," Jesus was not saying to Nicodemus that you must contribute to this divine experience, for it is wholly of God and not one iota of humanity involved.

2. That is why decisional regeneration is unbiblical.

 

All the time! Where do you live, dude --- in Hollywood!!?

skypair

 

No -- he's WILLFULLY BLIND to the truth, Amy. What he wants is for us to give in so he can "score" another point for Calvin.

skypair

 

So say the propaganda flyers anyway.

skypair

 

Then why did Jesus phrase it as if it was something that Nicodemus "must" do? If Jesus had intended to say it was entirely out of Nic's control wouldn't He have said something like "You will be born again" or "Sorry, but you won't be born again"? Poor old Nic, Jesus tells him something that he has no control over "must" happen.

 

1. VV.3 and 5 are both framed in the indicative, simple statements.

2. V. 7 begins with the negation of the subjunction, "Do not be amazed." However, "You must be born again" is framed in the passive, where the subject must be acted upon.

3. Poor Nic, still doesn't get to contribute anything.

 

We think a whole lot alike on these matters. :thumbs:

 

It is still poor Nic, regardless of whether it's "do" or "be".

Your scenario has Jesus more or less telling Nic "unless this happens to you, guess what - you get burned to death over and over forever, and what's even more awesome - you have absolutely NO control over whether it happens or not - hahahahahahahahahahaha!"

I just can't see Jesus being that cold.

 

I'll take out the humor out of your post and affirm everything else. But Jesus is not cold. There's no other way to understand this text. "Be" is what you are up against, not "Do."

 

Jesus was in effect saying that unless one is regenerate (not necessarily Nicodemus), he cannot see the kingdom of God for what it is.

 

You ever notice that Jesus did that a lot. It where I learned it.

 

1. Words do have meaning, and I'll glad we can rise above literary deconstructionism.

2. Yes, Bob, "Salvation is of the Lord." Jonah came to his senses and poor Nic, eventually got it (John 19:39).

 

Now you are confusing me. Wouldn't "Jonah had his senses come to him" and "it eventually got poor Nic" be the more Calvinisticly correct way to put it?

 

1. The Calvinist does not deny human responsibility, contrary to how others have portrayed us.

2. With that said, Jonah was simply affirming the reality of salvation, that is wholly of the Lord. Poor Nic had to have had the experience before he was able to affirm it.