Decisional Regeneration

[TCGreek]

1. When Jesus said to Nicodemus you must be "born again," Jesus was not saying to Nicodemus that you must contribute to this divine experience, for it is wholly of God and not one iota of humanity involved.

2. That is why decisional regeneration is unbiblical.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

1. When Jesus said to Nicodemus you must be "born again," Jesus was not saying to Nicodemus that you must contribute to this divine experience, for it is wholly of God and not one iota of humanity involved.

2. That is why decisional regeneration is unbiblical.

Well, that was easier and more simple than my replies, and says the same thing.
:saint:

 

[skypair]

Have you ever seen anyone make a free-will choice contrary to their desires?

All the time! Where do you live, dude --- in Hollywood!!?

skypair

 

[skypair]

I think you asked the wrong question there, RB. :tongue3:

We (as Christians especially) make free-will choices everyday that go against our desires.

No -- he's WILLFULLY BLIND to the truth, Amy. What he wants is for us to give in so he can "score" another point for Calvin.

skypair

 

[skypair]

1. When Jesus said to Nicodemus you must be "born again," Jesus was not saying to Nicodemus that you must contribute to this divine experience, for it is wholly of God and not one iota of humanity involved.

So say the propaganda flyers anyway.

skypair

 

[ReformedBaptist]

No -- he's WILLFULLY BLIND to the truth, Amy. What he wants is for us to give in so he can "score" another point for Calvin.

skypair

Glory to God for these hateful accusations for His Name sake. May the Lord bless you and have mercy on you skypair.

RB

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Sure, like when my wife (Melinda) and I get up and go to work in the morning. My desire is to keep rolling over and hitting the snooze button, or throw the stinkin' clock out the window, but I choose to get on up and start getting ready. (and I'm the "good" one)

Les

See my other reply brother.

 

[lbaker]

1. When Jesus said to Nicodemus you must be "born again," Jesus was not saying to Nicodemus that you must contribute to this divine experience, for it is wholly of God and not one iota of humanity involved.

Then why did Jesus phrase it as if it was something that Nicodemus "must" do? If Jesus had intended to say it was entirely out of Nic's control wouldn't He have said something like "You will be born again" or "Sorry, but you won't be born again"? Poor old Nic, Jesus tells him something that he has no control over "must" happen.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Then why did Jesus phrase it as if it was something that Nicodemus "must" do? If Jesus had intended to say it was entirely out of Nic's control wouldn't He have said something like "You will be born again" or "Sorry, but you won't be born again"? Poor old Nic, Jesus tells him something that he has no control over "must" happen.

It's not a must do, but a must be. Plain and simple.

 

[TCGreek]

Then why did Jesus phrase it as if it was something that Nicodemus "must" do? If Jesus had intended to say it was entirely out of Nic's control wouldn't He have said something like "You will be born again" or "Sorry, but you won't be born again"? Poor old Nic, Jesus tells him something that he has no control over "must" happen.

1. VV.3 and 5 are both framed in the indicative, simple statements.

2. V. 7 begins with the negation of the subjunction, "Do not be amazed." However, "You must be born again" is framed in the passive, where the subject must be acted upon.

3. Poor Nic, still doesn't get to contribute anything.

 

[TCGreek]

It's not a must do, but a must be. Plain and simple.

We think a whole lot alike on these matters. :thumbs:

 

[lbaker]

It is still poor Nic, regardless of whether it's "do" or "be".

Your scenario has Jesus more or less telling Nic "unless this happens to you, guess what - you get burned to death over and over forever, and what's even more awesome - you have absolutely NO control over whether it happens or not - hahahahahahahahahahaha!"

I just can't see Jesus being that cold.

 

[TCGreek]

It is still poor Nic, regardless of whether it's "do" or "be".

Your scenario has Jesus more or less telling Nic "unless this happens to you, guess what - you get burned to death over and over forever, and what's even more awesome - you have absolutely NO control over whether it happens or not - hahahahahahahahahahaha!"

I just can't see Jesus being that cold.

I'll take out the humor out of your post and affirm everything else. But Jesus is not cold. There's no other way to understand this text. "Be" is what you are up against, not "Do."

 

[Dr. Bob]

1. VV.3 and 5 are both framed in the indicative, simple statements.

2. V. 7 begins with the negation of the subjunction, "Do not be amazed." However, "You must be born again" is framed in the passive, where the subject must be acted upon.

3. Poor Nic, still doesn't get to contribute anything.

Passive? God does it to you? You mean words have MEANING? Amazing.

Not to the "I've got to DO something crowd."

I'm thankful that God showed Jonah, Nicodemus and Bob "Salvation is of the Lord". :love2:

 

[pinoybaptist]

Then why did Jesus phrase it as if it was something that Nicodemus "must" do? If Jesus had intended to say it was entirely out of Nic's control wouldn't He have said something like "You will be born again" or "Sorry, but you won't be born again"? Poor old Nic, Jesus tells him something that he has no control over "must" happen.

Jesus was in effect saying that unless one is regenerate (not necessarily Nicodemus), he cannot see the kingdom of God for what it is.

 

[Brother Bob]

My question was sincere, not rhetorical. But to answer the question with a question is a way not to answer a question. :smilewinkgrin:

You ever notice that Jesus did that a lot. It where I learned it.

 

[TCGreek]

Passive? God does it to you? You mean words have MEANING? Amazing.

1. Words do have meaning, and I'll glad we can rise above literary deconstructionism.

Not to the "I've got to DO something crowd."

I'm thankful that God showed Jonah, Nicodemus and Bob "Salvation is of the Lord". :love2:

2. Yes, Bob, "Salvation is of the Lord." Jonah came to his senses and poor Nic, eventually got it (John 19:39).

 

[lbaker]

Jonah came to his senses and poor Nic, eventually got it (John 19:39).

Now you are confusing me. Wouldn't "Jonah had his senses come to him" and "it eventually got poor Nic" be the more Calvinisticly correct way to put it?

 

[TCGreek]

Now you are confusing me. Wouldn't "Jonah had his senses come to him" and "it eventually got poor Nic" be the more Calvinisticly correct way to put it?

1. The Calvinist does not deny human responsibility, contrary to how others have portrayed us.

2. With that said, Jonah was simply affirming the reality of salvation, that is wholly of the Lord. Poor Nic had to have had the experience before he was able to affirm it.

 

[lbaker]

1. The Calvinist does not deny human responsibility, contrary to how others have portrayed us.

Okay, maybe we can explore this for a bit.

How can Nic be responsible for being born again when he has no control over it and must simply "let it be"?