Decretal Theology,

[Van]

WRONG.

Luke Chapter 10

20​	Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

Revelation Chapter 17

8​

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

Revelation Chapter 13

8​	And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.

Revelation Chapter 21

27​	and there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that are written in the Lamb`s book of life.

VANOLOGY SUCKS.

I can always depend on some posting falsehoods to defend false doctrine.

1) Does Luke 10:20 says when the names are written? Nope - so obfuscation on display.

2) What is the time span of "from the foundation of the world?" From creation, until today, and then on to the end of the age. So once again, obfuscation.

3) Ditto for Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8, both non-germane.

4) Revelation 21:27 once again does not say when our names are written in heaven.

So a complete bust, without a shred of support for individual election before creation.

 

[Aaron]

I will always fight against blasphemy, denying the true salvation by the power of the Holy Spirit!

Whoa, Nelly.

If it's your own choice to believe, then how can you say salvation is of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Aaron]

I can always depend on some posting falsehoods to defend false doctrine.

And we can always count on you to be entertaining!

 

[Charlie24]

Whoa, Nelly.

If it's your own choice to believe, then how can you say salvation is of the Holy Spirit?

Everything for salvation is provided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Charlie24]

Everything for salvation is provided by the Holy Spirit.

There's an old analogy that explains the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It's given in construction terms.

1) The owner
2) The architect
3) The contractor

God the Father is the owner of everything.

God the Son is the architect that drew up the plans for everything.

God the Holy Spirit is the contractor that built everything.

The contractor is the one who gets all the work and details done according to the plans.

 

[Aaron]

Everything for salvation is provided by the Holy Spirit.

But it doesn't save. Not in your thinking. The Holy Spirt in your thinking is not the active agent. (I'm not talking about your weak contractor analogy.) You are the active agent. Each and every time. It's your own work to believe...to activate Christ's Atonement in your case.

You say "power of the Spirit," but what you describe is a passivity of the Spirit.

 

[Charlie24]

But it doesn't save. Not in your thinking. The Holy Spirt in your thinking is not the active agent. (I'm not talking about your weak contractor analogy.) You are the active agent. Each and every time. It's your own work to believe...to activate Christ's Atonement in your case.

You say "power of the Spirit," but what you describe is a passivity of the Spirit.

Accepting or rejecting the Holy Spirit's call when hearing the Gospel is not a provision of salvation!

He has everything you need to be saved, but if you reject it there can be no provision given.

I had nothing to do with providing myself with the necessities of salvation., He provided everything.

All I did was repent and believe when He came knocking on my door.

 

[Aaron]

All I did was repent and believe when He came knocking on my door.

What a good boy you are!

Like I said, you're the active agent.

 

[Charlie24]

What a good boy you are!

Like I said, you're the active agent.

Ok, if you believe I saved myself, then for sure I saved myself. That's fine with me.

Or you can see it the way I see it. I accepted the free gift of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

Ok, if you believe I saved myself, then for sure I saved myself. That's fine with me.

Or you can see it the way I see it. I accepted the free gift of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

God gave me something I could have never achieved for myself, there was no hope, something I in no way deserve.

But He gave it to me anyway! Just as He gave it to Abraham.

Gen 15:6

"And he (Abraham) believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

Did Abraham save himself?

 

[David Lamb]

The election takes place after one's calling.
Matthew 22:14, For many are called, but few are | elect. |

How can it when Paul writes in Ephesians:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,” (Eph 1:3-4 NKJV)

I know you are far more knowledgeable about NT Greek than I am, but as far as I am aware, the word translated "chose" there, although not the same Greek word as "elect", means the same thing, to select, to make a choice.

 

[Brightfame52]

You're making a useless point, BF.

God has called ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent, if you believe the Scripture.

Since God has called all men everywhere to repent, the remnant can't be the choosing of God, He wants all to repent.

But we know that all men everywhere are not going to repent, Christ plainly told us that.

So we are left with man choosing his own way and not some theory of predestination gone off the charts.

You ignoring the Rom 10 context

 

[Brightfame52]

You're making a useless point, BF.

God has called ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent, if you believe the Scripture.

Since God has called all men everywhere to repent, the remnant can't be the choosing of God, He wants all to repent.

But we know that all men everywhere are not going to repent, Christ plainly told us that.

So we are left with man choosing his own way and not some theory of predestination gone off the charts.

Now that you evaded the Rom 10 context and decided to go with Acts 17 30, #1 the command to repent there is to the saved and not lost people, #2 its to the elect of God among the nations of the world outside of ethnic israel, and #3 the very command being of Gods commanding, causes the repentance to be obeyed. When God commands its done. Ps 33:9-11

9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

10 The Lord bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.

11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

1) Does Luke 10:20 says when the names are written? Nope - so obfuscation on display.

Doesn't have to say, Jesus is stating a present fact that occurred in the past. The word written graphō is in the aorist tense, a tense that is actually timeless, but generally denotes sometimes in the past, and here its passive voice, meaning someone wrote their names in Heaven, it wasn't themselves. Its in the indicative mood meaning again its a simple fact. And Jesus told them to rejoice about it. Now even though Jesus didn't specify exactly when in the past, it can be concluded He means the Lambs Book of Life when names were written in it from the foundation of the world, meaning i believe from before the foundation of the world since Christ was foreordained to redeem them before the foundation 1 Pet 1:19-20

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

And couple that with Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Even if one argues the word from doesnt mean before, its a useless argument, because either way it was before the persons existed in time.

So a complete bust, without a shred of support for individual election before creation.

False and weak , self imposed conclusion. There names were written in the past in reference to time, however with God who did the writing, past, present and future are all one with Him and Eternalized. Also the word names denotes individuality, single persons. My name doesnt denote you, and your name doesnt denote others. So Jesus is stating election of individuals before they existed, God wrote their names in Heaven which i believe is Election.

 

[37818]

How can it when Paul writes in Ephesians:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,” (Eph 1:3-4 NKJV)

I know you are far more knowledgeable about NT Greek than I am, but as far as I am aware, the word translated "chose" there, although not the same Greek word as "elect", means the same thing, to select, to make a choice.

I.am no Greek scholar. But have word study tools on my phone that tells me, for the Greek. The on line BlueLetterBible provides the same.

The "choosing" in Ephesians 1:4 is not the election.

 

[Van]

Whoa, Nelly.

If it's your own choice to believe, then how can you say salvation is of the Holy Spirit?

The people of Matthew 7 believed, yet were not saved. Soils #2&3 believed, yet were not saved. Only those credited with righteous faith are saved, thus all of God and none of people.

 

[Van]

And we can always count on you to be entertaining!

Below is the biblical basis for recognizing false claims being used to support false doctrine.

1) Does Luke 10:20 says when the names are written? Nope - so obfuscation on display.
2) What is the time span of "from the foundation of the world?" From creation, until today, and then on to the end of the age. So once again, obfuscation.
3) Ditto for Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8, both non-germane.
4) Revelation 21:27 once again does not say when our names are written in heaven.
So a complete bust, without a shred of support for individual election before creation.

 

[Brightfame52]

@37818

The "choosing" in Ephesians 1:4 is not the election.

And what tool told you this ? The blue letter ? Jesus Identifies the Chosen like them in Eph 1:4 as the elect Mark 13 20

And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days

 

[Van]

@Van

Doesn't have to say, Jesus is stating a present fact that occurred in the past. The word written graphō is in the aorist tense, a tense that is actually timeless, but generally denotes sometimes in the past, and here its passive voice, meaning someone wrote their names in Heaven, it wasn't themselves. Its in the indicative mood meaning again its a simple fact. And Jesus told them to rejoice about it. Now even though Jesus didn't specify exactly when in the past, it can be concluded He means the Lambs Book of Life when names were written in it from the foundation of the world, meaning i believe from before the foundation of the world since Christ was foreordained to redeem them before the foundation 1 Pet 1:19-20

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

And couple that with Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Even if one argues the word from doesnt mean before, its a useless argument, because either way it was before the persons existed in time.




False and weak , self imposed conclusion. There names were written in the past in reference to time, however with God who did the writing, past, present and future are all one with Him and Eternalized. Also the word names denotes individuality, single persons. My name doesnt denote you, and your name doesnt denote others. So Jesus is stating election of individuals before they existed, God wrote their names in Heaven which i believe is Election.

1) Yes, the names of those saved, those Jesus was addressing, had been in the past written in heaven. Absolutely no support for before creation.

2) Yes, the Word, Logos, The Second Person of the Trinity, was chosen to be the Lamb of God, the Redeemer, Before creation. Not at issue.

3) Revelation 13:8 provides no support for claiming names were written "before" the foundation of the world.

4) No, from the foundation of the world refers to a time interval starting at the creation week and extending until the end of the age, thus names will be written in the future if the age lasts into the future.

Once again, not a shed of actual evidence from scripture for the false doctrine.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

1) Yes, the names of those saved, those Jesus was addressing, had been in the past written in heaven. Absolutely no support for before creation.

Yes it is support, other scripture. Scripture should be compared with other scripture. And God who did the writing is Eternal, thats His Work.

So the real issue is there is no support for this work of God being done in time, something temporal