Decretal Theology,

[37818]

And what tool told you this ? The blue letter ? Jesus Identifies the Chosen like them in Eph 1:4 as the elect Mark 13 20

LOL.
Mark 13:20 proves otherwise. The choosing before time precedes the election which takes place in time.

. . . the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, . . .

That the choosing is not the election it precedes.

 

[Van]

@Van

Yes it is support, other scripture. Scripture should be compared with other scripture. And God who did the writing is Eternal, thats His Work.

So the real issue is there is no support for this work of God being done in time, something temporal

"From the foundation of the world" refers to "temporal" time.

 

[Brightfame52]

LOL.
Mark 13:20 proves otherwise. The choosing before time precedes the election which takes place in time.

. . . the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, . . .

That the choosing is not the election it precedes.

Lol, I reckon you see things I dont see in scripture

 

[Brightfame52]

"From the foundation of the world" refers to "temporal" time.

Can you prove that ? The prep apo can mean before,

ἀπό apó, apo'; a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):—(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with.

 

[37818]

@Brightfame52
Ephesians 1:4, εξελεξατο
Mark 13:20, εκλεκτους . . . εξελεξατο

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52
Ephesians 1:4, εξελεξατο
Mark 13:20, εκλεκτους . . . εξελεξατο

And

 

[Van]

LOL.
Mark 13:20 proves otherwise. The choosing before time precedes the election which takes place in time.

. . . the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, . . .

That the choosing is not the election it precedes.

I am sorry, but Mark 13:20 clearly says the elect were chosen, but does not say being chosen is what made them "elect" or whether somehow, a person could be elect, and then chosen. This is like arguing about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.

Consider two translations of 1 Peter 5:13
NKJV - elected together
NASB - chosen together

To be elect is to be chosen for salvation.

 

[37818]

I am sorry, but Mark 13:20 clearly says the elect were chosen, . . .

@Brightfame52
Ephesians 1:4, εξελεξατο
Mark 13:20, εκλεκτους . . . εξελεξατο

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

No, APO cannot mean before!

Duh I just showed you the lexicon definitions of apo from:


ἀπό apó, apo'; a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):—(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with.

G575 - apo - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G575 - ἀπό apó, apo'; a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):—(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with.

www.blueletterbible.org

Some translations employ before as fir instance Rev 13:8 ESV

and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

 

[Van]

@Van

Duh I just showed you the lexicon definitions of apo from:

ἀπό apó, apo'; a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):—(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with.

G575 - apo - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G575 - ἀπό apó, apo'; a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):—(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with.

www.blueletterbible.org

Some translations employ before as fir instance Rev 13:8 ESV

and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

The Greek word "apo" (G575) refers to separation from something. You cannot separate, depart, or go from the foundation of the world before the foundation of the world exists. Yes, the word is mistranslated as "before" but the majority of translations of Rev. 13:8 go with from or since. (Only about 10 our of more than 60 use before.) The recent revision of the ESV removed "before" from Rev. 13:8.

See: : https://www.esv.org/about/2025-updates/

 

[Charlie24]

You ignoring the Rom 10 context

Not ignoring Rom. 10, you are distorting every verse of Scripture you quote.

I've never seen anyone so confused in Scripture.

So I go back to the simple things that you can understand, but still deny.

 

[37818]

Consider two translations of 1 Peter 5:13
NKJV - elected together
NASB - chosen together

This Greek term only occurs once in the NT
συνεκλεκτη

 

[kyredneck]

I've never seen anyone so confused in Scripture.

Lol! Go look in the mirror!

 

[Charlie24]

Lol! Go look in the mirror!

When someone denies that God has called all men everywhere to repent, and that Christ died for the sins of the whole world, which is plain unmistakable Scripture, there's nothing one can do but pray for that person.

 

[kyredneck]

God has called all men everywhere to repent

'All anthropos' - all races, "not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles".

 

[Brightfame52]

The Greek word "apo" (G575) refers to separation from something. You cannot separate, depart, or go from the foundation of the world before the foundation of the world exists. Yes, the word is mistranslated as "before" but the majority of translations of Rev. 13:8 go with from or since. (Only about 10 our of more than 60 use before.) The recent revision of the ESV removed "before" from Rev. 13:8.

See: : https://www.esv.org/about/2025-updates/

Duh if you noticed I just provided the lexicon def for apo. Away from can mean b4, didn't the Esv translators believe so ? So it depends on what the subject matter is, essentially grammarians aren't the final authority of scripture truth, but other scripture. Its the analogy of scripture that trumps greek scholars who may not even believe in God, they using wisdom of the world. Since God did the writing, He is Eternal

And even the word since can denote before, here are some near synonyms for that word:

Synonyms of since

1
: from a definite past time until now
has stayed there ever since


2
: before the present time : ago
long since dead

Definition of SINCE

from a definite past time until now; before the present time : ago; after a time in the past : subsequently… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

One more lexicon source for apo:

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
hereafter, ago, at, because of, before.
A primary particle; "off," i.e. Away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative) -- (X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with. In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.

 

[Piper 2]

1) Yes, the names of those saved, those Jesus was addressing, had been in the past written in heaven. Absolutely no support for before creation.

2) Yes, the Word, Logos, The Second Person of the Trinity, was chosen to be the Lamb of God, the Redeemer, Before creation. Not at issue.

3) Revelation 13:8 provides no support for claiming names were written "before" the foundation of the world.

4) No, from the foundation of the world refers to a time interval starting at the creation week and extending until the end of the age, thus names will be written in the future if the age lasts into the future.

Once again, not a shed of actual evidence from scripture for the false doctrine.

What weird, twisted, strange ways you interpret clear phrases.

 

[Piper 2]

@Van



Duh I just showed you the lexicon definitions of apo from:


ἀπό apó, apo'; a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):—(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with.

G575 - apo - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G575 - ἀπό apó, apo'; a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):—(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with.

www.blueletterbible.org

Some translations employ before as fir instance Rev 13:8 ESV

and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

There is not a logical argument or movement of the Holy Spirit that will change an ego-centric arrogant attitude of someone who believes false doctrine.

 

[Charlie24]

'All anthropos' - all races, "not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles".

Look it up, Ky, it's referring to all of mankind.

• ἀνδρὸς (an-dros):
  This is the nominative singular form of the noun ἄνθρωπος (anthropos), which means "man" or "human being". In Acts 17:30, it's used in a collective sense to refer to all people.

 

[kyredneck]

Look it up, Ky

K.

'All anthropos' includes both vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy (afore prepared unto glory).

Romans Chapter 9

22​	What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction:
23​	and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24​	even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles?