Defending our Military

[Don]

By the way, an Air Force C-130 crashed the other day, killing 4 of the crew members. They were helping with firefighting efforts in South Dakota. They were doing their best to help preserve land and homes of American citizens. I refer you back to post #27 in this thread.

 

[freeatlast]

If you'll recall, Poncho said "for over a hundred years"; that implies a continual effort, and thus why I specified between 1912 and 1991. You had to go back more than 200 years to provide an example.

So if you really want to help out Poncho, stay within the parameters: which muslim towns and cities have we been bombing up until 1991? What muslim lands were we occupying? What muslim resources were we dividing up?

You just can't admitt when you are wrong can you.

 

[poncho]

Now you've got me curious; between 1912 and 1991, what muslim towns and cities were we blowing up? What muslim lands were we occupying? What muslim resources were we dividing up? All I can think of is Libya and Iran, and those were both in response to actions taken against the US. So please, educate me.

I was speaking of all the towns and cities we've "made war" in since our military became an imperial war machine. Not just muslim towns and cities.

Remember the Maine! in 1898. The Philippines, Guam, Cuba and Puerto Rico came under our control as a result.

1900 military intervention in China. Then there was the Dominican Republic in 1904. Honduras in 1905. Panama in 1908. Nicaragua in 1912. Mexico in 1913. Haiti in 1915, etc., etc.

What do all these military interventions have in common? None of them were waged in defense of the United States. None of them were waged to protect and defend the US constitution. And so with all of "our" military interventions since.

"We" weren't dividing up the muslim's resources Don. The global bankers and corporitos always do that. It's called "reconstruction". Remember Paul Bremer's orders 37 and 39? Here's an article from Harper's to help refresh your memory.

What is considered "good governance" today?

"Greed creates profit, which creates growth, which creates jobs and products and services and everything else anyone could possibly need or want. The role of good government, then, is to create the optimal conditions for corporations to pursue their bottomless greed, so that they in turn can meet the needs of the society."

What was considered good governance at the founding of the United States? It's summed up in . . .

A ragged old overlooked and often mocked piece of parchment.

Every person who enters the military swears an oath to protect and defend the principles in this old parchment. Sadly when one of them actually attempts to honor that oath they are called traitors and it is always "claimed" they are putting the country in grave danger. How Orwellian, huh?

The "solution" to our blatant hypocrisy then as I said before is to swear an oath to protect and defend the global bankers and their multinational corporate raiders who our government and military actually do serve today. At least with this new oath the troops will no longer be mislead about who and what they are about to lay down their lives to protect.

 

[freeatlast]

By the way, an Air Force C-130 crashed the other day, killing 4 of the crew members. They were helping with firefighting efforts in South Dakota. They were doing their best to help preserve land and homes of American citizens. I refer you back to post #27 in this thread.

No one is saying that the troops never do good, but good does not fix evil. I am sure that the Nazi's during WW2 had some that did good, but the Nazi's were evil. The problem is that our government is stripping away our liberties and the military is turning a blind eye and in many cases helping. Burning bibles, promoting/celebrating homosexuality, limiting what chaplains can say and do, serving under other flags and much more.
Don it is clear that you have an agenda and it is not the constitution or our liberties as you defend the every evil that is happening. Rather then speaking up and out about what is happening you seek to oppress it.

 

[poncho]

In Don's defense I will say that the Nazi's, great propagandists that they were couldn't hold a candle to the modern day high tech propaganda machine that passes for our corporatized mass media of today.

Don is only reacting to the lies that have been passed off as truth for decades. Evidently he believes them still. It ain't easy to swim upstream brother. It's not for the weak, the meek, or the easily intimidated.

He may come around. He can change from a sheople to a people but it won't be easy or pleasant for him. Fear of being called names like conspiracy theorist or traitor is hard to overcome.

Let's give ole Don a break then okay? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Don]

You just can't admitt when you are wrong can you.

As you previously posted to me: When I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

 

[freeatlast]

In Don's defense I will say that the Nazi's, great propagandists that they were couldn't hold a candle to the modern day high tech propaganda machine that passes for our corporatized mass media of today.

Don is only reacting to the lies that have been passed off as truth for decades. Evidently he believes them still. It ain't easy to swim upstream brother. It's not for the weak, the meek, or the easily intimidated.

He may come around. He can change from a sheople to a people but it won't be easy or pleasant for him. Fear of being called names like conspiracy theorist or traitor is hard to overcome.

Let's give ole Don a break then okay? :smilewinkgrin:

I hope it is ignorance as you have suggested, but I honestly have serious questions if that is the case. Perhaps you see something here I am missing so I will give him the benifit of the doubt as you have suggested.

 

[saturneptune]

I hope it is ignorance as you have suggested, but I honestly have serious questions if that is the case. Perhaps you see something here I am missing so I will give him the benifit of the doubt as you have suggested.

If the military is a 236 year old organization of evil, corruption, and dishonor in defending freedom and liberty, why do you choose to use their efforts to exercise your Constitutional rights to free speech by posting on this board?

 

[LadyEagle]

If the military is a 236 year old organization of evil, corruption, and dishonor in defending freedom and liberty, why do you choose to use their efforts to exercise your Constitutional rights to free speech by posting on this board?

Excellent point. :thumbs:

 

[Arbo]

I hope it is ignorance as you have suggested, but I honestly have serious questions if that is the case. Perhaps you see something here I am missing so I will give him the benifit of the doubt as you have suggested.

Impugn his character when you've no better argument. Typical.

 

[Arbo]

No one is saying that the troops never do good, but good does not fix evil. I am sure that the Nazi's during WW2 had some that did good, but the Nazi's were evil.

Comparing the Nazis to the U.S. military? Seriously?

Apples and oranges, as you would say.

 

[LadyEagle]

The First Barbary War (1801–1805), also known as the Tripolitan War or the Barbary Coast War, was the first of two wars fought between the United States and the Northwest African Berber Muslim states known collectively as the Barbary States. These were Tripoli and Algiers, which were quasi-independent entities nominally belonging to the Ottoman Empire, and (briefly) the independent Sultanate of Morocco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

Well, you brought this up, hoping to prove the US military is bad and that Don is wrong. But thanks for bringing up the Barbary Pirates. Because they raped, plundered, and enslaved people (just like their religion demands) for centuries, good old Tom Jefferson was largely responsible for instituting the US Navy!! Bravo, Tom!!!

You see, muslims were at war with the world even back then and they have had a history of being at war with the world from the beginning which is why the Crusades were fought & islamic quest for rule of the world continues to this day. That is their history, even though the PC police don't want to admit it and the history revisionists have sought to exalt islam and call it a "religion of peace." (List of islamic terrror attacks in the last 30 days: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks )

So the US Navy and US Marines engaged the muslim pirates. "To the shores of Tripoli...."

From your link:

Pirate ships and crews from the North African Berber states of Algiers, Tunis, Morocco, and Tripoli (the Barbary Coast) were the scourge of the Mediterranean. Capturing merchant ships and enslaving or ransoming their crews provided the Muslim rulers of these nations with wealth and naval power. The Roman Catholic Trinitarian Order or Order of "Mathurins" had operated from France for centuries with the special mission of collecting and disbursing funds for the relief and ransom of prisoners of Mediterranean pirates.

Barbary pirates led attacks upon American merchant shipping in an attempt to extort ransom for the lives of captured sailors, and ultimately tribute from the United States to avoid further attacks, much like their standard operating procedure with the various European states.

A little history for the uninformed:

The Barbary corsairs, sometimes called Ottoman corsairs or Barbary pirates, were pirates and privateers who operated from North Africa, based primarily in the ports of Tunis, Tripoli and Algiers. This area was known in Europe as the Barbary Coast, a term derived from the name of its Berber inhabitants. Their predation extended throughout the Mediterranean, south along West Africa's Atlantic seaboard and even South America,[1] and into the North Atlantic as far north as Iceland, but they primarily operated in the western Mediterranean. In addition to seizing ships, they engaged in Razzias, raids on European coastal towns and villages, mainly in Italy, France, Spain, and Portugal, but also in England, Scotland, the Netherlands, Ireland, and as far away as Iceland. The main purpose of their attacks was to capture Christian slaves for the Islamic market in North Africa and the Middle East.[2]

While such raids had occurred since soon after the Muslim conquest of the region, the terms Barbary pirates and Barbary corsairs are normally applied to the raiders active from the 16th century onwards, when the frequency and range of the slavers' attacks increased and Algiers, Tunis and Tripoli came under the sovereignty of the Ottoman Empire, either as directly administered provinces or as autonomous dependencies known as the Barbary States. Similar raids were undertaken from Bou Regreg and Salé and other ports in Morocco, but strictly speaking Morocco, which never came under Ottoman dominance, was not one of the Barbary States. Göke (1495) was the flagship of Kemal Reis at the Battle of Zonchio.

Corsairs captured thousands of ships, and long stretches of coast in Spain and Italy were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants, discouraging settlement until the 19th century. From the 16th to 19th century, corsairs captured an estimated 800,000 to 1.25 million people as slaves.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_corsairs

 

[Don]

Lady Eagle - I wasn't going to respond to that post; but since you decided to do so, please allow me to add: The 1st Barbary War was to protect US ships and citizens against pirates. Check out the 2nd Barbary War, where the US decided to send ships to defend enslaved Christians.

But hey, we're talking about the US bombing towns and cities, stealing resources, etc., etc. Gotta keep the conversation within parameters, and not mix apples and oranges, ya know.

SaturnNeptune - my apologies. I cautioned you about getting into a discussion, and then I went and fell into it myself.

Arbo - as far as FAL is concerned, don't worry about him "impugning" my character. I've been "impugned" by far better.

 

[LadyEagle]

Thanks, Don. :thumbs:


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