OK, here is a little background info. My Aunt is in an Occult who practices witch craft. My Biological mother is also. She would always want me to do ouiji and séances with her starting when I was very young. I do know what I am talking about. It is true that if you walk with God you wouldn't have demonic presents. However, like I said before I am NOT walking with God because I am scared of these presences. When I do walk with God they get very intense and I can't take that. I want more than anything to walk with God, that’s why I am here. I don't think I have an imbalance. I was always a good kid. I was on national honor society, student leadership, top 10% in my class, honor student all four years in High School, cheerleader, and in college I was in advance classes and got A's. So, I don't think I would be stupid enough to believe that I have an imbalance. I am a spouse of military as well, so a counselor is free. (I just got out of active duty due to my daughter) I will go and see a counselor to prove that I am not imbalanced. I thank all of you who do support me!! I really appreciate it. I am going to start going to church again this Sunday and start this battle with Satan. I'm finally ready to face him. I am a Christian I was saved at a young age. My husband is as well and all I want is to raise my dear daughter is a good Christian home and hopefully protect her from this evil. Thank you for listening and I didn't mean to start a debate. Thank you.
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Demons
- Thread starter mlg1019
- Start date
I feel very strongly for you. I don't think the "caring" people here disbelieve you. They are only saying to make sure there is no imbalance and do not imply that you are "stupid" in any way. We just know how hormones and chemical imbalances can cause major problems. I think by saying to be checked they only want to "rule those issues out" because they can cause REAL problems and it makes you no less weak or otherwise.
Yes, Christians are harassed by demons at times and if your family is into the occult, you are more prone to this.
My wife visited two of her old friends in another state and found out they were into new-age occult when she arrived at their house, after her plane flight. It was everything she could do to stay the week without coming back home (we could not afford the ticket change) the first night because of the evil and the dreams she had around them. It had a very negative effect on her for weeks thereafter.
I still stick with my advice, I would at least discuss this with a pastor. I would probably stay away from "secular" counselors and I would still have a chat with a "Christian doctor or counselor" just so that you can feel better and rule issues out that may be making you weaker physically.
Stick to your guns and pray and we will also pray for a hedge of protection to be placed around you and for peace in your life. I know it is sad to feel nobody believes you, but I think more of us do than you realize; we are just trying to give you a practical plan for your physical AND spiritual health and it always helps to make sure the physical side is as well as possible, if you are going to be stressed spiritually. That's all we mean by it. God bless you and we will be praying for you.
Right folks?
M
MalkyEL
Guest
I see that I did not adequately respond in a way that would allow you to understand my position. I have often wondered why so many Christians simplify the demonic/angelic and the spiritual realm. Perhaps satan has done a better job than we realize in keeping people ignorant of this.
My point about ghosts and burial grounds is not to imply spooky halloweenish type philosophy. I am talking reality. It is where demons congregate. Not to haunt, but to gather. They are very organized with a system of rank. Not all demons are assigned to people at the same time. They do come and go as directed.
They are also attracted to occultish objects because humans mess with them. So yes, it is possible that the ouija board up in the attic has a spirit in the vicinity and is probably causing problems within the household. demons also have the capability to control objects in the house and to cause things to be moved.
It is no different in the angelic realm, in contrast. We know that God uses angels to minister to us. It may not be obvious exactly how, but we do know that God uses them to protect us [Psalms 91] and that we can entertain angels unawares [Heb 13:2].
I believe that angels can also move objects and stand guard around us. As spirits, they have capabilities over and above ours. Therefore, whether demons or angels, they both are equal in function - but angels have more authority as servants of the Most High. In other words, they win
. Remember the story of the Arch-Angel Michael who was sent to help get a message to Daniel because it was detained by demons? [Dan 10]
Yes, ghosts are nothing more than evil spirits or demons that falsely appear or speak to humans as their dead ancestors and as spiritual guides. Jesus reminds us who their father is. Paul stated that satan masquerades as an angel of light and so do his followers. demons can also infest one's dreams - which is a fairly common occurrence that defys explanation.
Just as angels can appear to humans, so can demons. satan is not omnipresent, so he is limited in power and influence. Although he is god of this world, and is the prince of the powers and principalities of the air, he also has control on this plane, but only to the extent that God allows him.
In Revelation 2, Jesus refers to satan being on the throne in Pergamus - this certainly leaves the door open to the abilities that satan has in this realm.
God has said, it is appointed that man should die once. Regeneration is just another philosophy that demons use to ensnare people.
I have noticed that it is supposed that praising God is good "demon control". Can anyone give a Scripture reference for that? David was praising God in front of King Saul who was possessed by a demon. This demon motivated Saul to attempt to murder David, and he had to run for his life.
It may have been missed, but mlg stated that these demonic experiences have been happening to her since she was a little girl, so the "new mother syndrome" is out. At the risk of sounding repetitious, if mlg seeks professional or pastoral care, and these people have no knowledge of, have not been trained in the spiritual realm or in spiritual warfare, and are not guided by the Holy Spirit, it will be as if she has been thrown to the lions.
Phillip wrote:
Yes, my friend, spiritualism is very, very real and I do believe in them. But, you are underestimating the power available to spirits that have roamed the earth for hundreds of years, manifesting themselves in different ways.
MalkyEL: I have a great deal of respect for satan's authority is this realm. However; I do not fear him. he holds no threat and has no power over me. he is only allowed to come against me as God allows.
Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
My point about ghosts and burial grounds is not to imply spooky halloweenish type philosophy. I am talking reality. It is where demons congregate. Not to haunt, but to gather. They are very organized with a system of rank. Not all demons are assigned to people at the same time. They do come and go as directed.
They are also attracted to occultish objects because humans mess with them. So yes, it is possible that the ouija board up in the attic has a spirit in the vicinity and is probably causing problems within the household. demons also have the capability to control objects in the house and to cause things to be moved.
It is no different in the angelic realm, in contrast. We know that God uses angels to minister to us. It may not be obvious exactly how, but we do know that God uses them to protect us [Psalms 91] and that we can entertain angels unawares [Heb 13:2].
I believe that angels can also move objects and stand guard around us. As spirits, they have capabilities over and above ours. Therefore, whether demons or angels, they both are equal in function - but angels have more authority as servants of the Most High. In other words, they win
. Remember the story of the Arch-Angel Michael who was sent to help get a message to Daniel because it was detained by demons? [Dan 10]Yes, ghosts are nothing more than evil spirits or demons that falsely appear or speak to humans as their dead ancestors and as spiritual guides. Jesus reminds us who their father is. Paul stated that satan masquerades as an angel of light and so do his followers. demons can also infest one's dreams - which is a fairly common occurrence that defys explanation.
Just as angels can appear to humans, so can demons. satan is not omnipresent, so he is limited in power and influence. Although he is god of this world, and is the prince of the powers and principalities of the air, he also has control on this plane, but only to the extent that God allows him.
In Revelation 2, Jesus refers to satan being on the throne in Pergamus - this certainly leaves the door open to the abilities that satan has in this realm.
God has said, it is appointed that man should die once. Regeneration is just another philosophy that demons use to ensnare people.
I have noticed that it is supposed that praising God is good "demon control". Can anyone give a Scripture reference for that? David was praising God in front of King Saul who was possessed by a demon. This demon motivated Saul to attempt to murder David, and he had to run for his life.
It may have been missed, but mlg stated that these demonic experiences have been happening to her since she was a little girl, so the "new mother syndrome" is out. At the risk of sounding repetitious, if mlg seeks professional or pastoral care, and these people have no knowledge of, have not been trained in the spiritual realm or in spiritual warfare, and are not guided by the Holy Spirit, it will be as if she has been thrown to the lions.
Phillip wrote:
Yes, my friend, spiritualism is very, very real and I do believe in them. But, you are underestimating the power available to spirits that have roamed the earth for hundreds of years, manifesting themselves in different ways.
MalkyEL: I have a great deal of respect for satan's authority is this realm. However; I do not fear him. he holds no threat and has no power over me. he is only allowed to come against me as God allows.
Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Terry_Herrington
New Member
I think some of you are very mis-informed. I read the first Harry Potter book and enjoyed it. It was required for a course I took at the University of Houston for credit in "Children's Literature."
John is right. I would think, according to some of the posts here, that some of you believe that witches do ride around on broomsticks.
John is right. I would think, according to some of the posts here, that some of you believe that witches do ride around on broomsticks.
Dear mlg1019,
I had poltergeist (or whatever you call it) for the longest time. Whatever it was scared me silly when I was a kid, followed my husband and me to Japan and harrassed us there, and followed me back. It hasn't bothered me since I first came back to the states. None of my family is in the occult so I don't know why I was picked.
I say this so that you will know that someone here knows how you feel. Although I didn't feel anything especially evil as you have, it scared me (and my husband) just the same.
Please do not let whatever this is (spirits, imbalance?) stop you from raising your daughter as a Christian. Please feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more.
Kim
Well, since we are posting on a "debate" site. hehe...I will ask you;Originally posted by MalkyEL:
I see that I did not adequately respond in a way that would allow you to understand my position. I have often wondered why so many Christians simplify the demonic/angelic and the spiritual realm. Perhaps satan has done a better job than we realize in keeping people ignorant of this.
My point about ghosts and burial grounds is not to imply spooky halloweenish type philosophy. I am talking reality. It is where demons congregate. Not to haunt, but to gather. They are very organized with a system of rank. Not all demons are assigned to people at the same time. They do come and go as directed.
They are also attracted to occultish objects because humans mess with them. So yes, it is possible that the ouija board up in the attic has a spirit in the vicinity and is probably causing problems within the household. demons also have the capability to control objects in the house and to cause things to be moved.
It is no different in the angelic realm, in contrast. We know that God uses angels to minister to us. It may not be obvious exactly how, but we do know that God uses them to protect us [Psalms 91] and that we can entertain angels unawares [Heb 13:2].
I believe that angels can also move objects and stand guard around us. As spirits, they have capabilities over and above ours. Therefore, whether demons or angels, they both are equal in function - but angels have more authority as servants of the Most High. In other words, they win
Yes, ghosts are nothing more than evil spirits or demons that falsely appear or speak to humans as their dead ancestors and as spiritual guides. Jesus reminds us who their father is. Paul stated that satan masquerades as an angel of light and so do his followers. demons can also infest one's dreams - which is a fairly common occurrence that defys explanation.
Just as angels can appear to humans, so can demons. satan is not omnipresent, so he is limited in power and influence. Although he is god of this world, and is the prince of the powers and principalities of the air, he also has control on this plane, but only to the extent that God allows him.
In Revelation 2, Jesus refers to satan being on the throne in Pergamus - this certainly leaves the door open to the abilities that satan has in this realm.
God has said, it is appointed that man should die once. Regeneration is just another philosophy that demons use to ensnare people.
I have noticed that it is supposed that praising God is good "demon control". Can anyone give a Scripture reference for that? David was praising God in front of King Saul who was possessed by a demon. This demon motivated Saul to attempt to murder David, and he had to run for his life.
It may have been missed, but mlg stated that these demonic experiences have been happening to her since she was a little girl, so the "new mother syndrome" is out. At the risk of sounding repetitious, if mlg seeks professional or pastoral care, and these people have no knowledge of, have not been trained in the spiritual realm or in spiritual warfare, and are not guided by the Holy Spirit, it will be as if she has been thrown to the lions.
Phillip wrote:
Yes, my friend, spiritualism is very, very real and I do believe in them. But, you are underestimating the power available to spirits that have roamed the earth for hundreds of years, manifesting themselves in different ways.
MalkyEL: I have a great deal of respect for satan's authority is this realm. However; I do not fear him. he holds no threat and has no power over me. he is only allowed to come against me as God allows.
Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
How do you know demons congregate around a cemetary?
How do you know that a spirit will hang around an object used in an occult if no person is around?
You state:
Where and what is your authority on this?
Is it Biblical (and if so where) or is this from an "Occult expert"?
For instance: if satan is a spirit, what prevents him from being omnipresent in our plane of existence? In Job he says "from walking up and down on the face of the Earth" why could this not be a figure-of-speech since he is a spiritual being. Just as "God hovered over the deep" in Genesis (ESV) (and we KNOW God is omnipresent.)
You also quote:
If anybody threw her to the lions, you just did with your advice that only someone "trained" in spiritual warfare is going to help. I didn't see you tell her to reach out for the Lord...
If I were to suggest she speak to someone for spiritual guidance, then it be a good pastor. Obviously, you are not trained in the areas of spiritual warfare, so I suggest that we lay off "the Exorcist (as in the movie) tactics" and provide the girl with some encouragement to follow the Lord and visit with a good Christian Minister. Sorry to be so blunt here, but in the debate site, we call em like we see em and this lady is looking for help, not speculations into the functioning of the dark spirit world.
Part of your post is good (especially the last part), but your claims of cemetary hauntings and such is mere speculation on your part, unless, of course you are listening to secular occultists. If this is the case, then I won't go to another funeral that ends up in a cemetary......
It might also be good if you do not offer your advice as a physical doctor as you are making assumptions of her physical condition without having even seen her. May I see your license to practice medicine on the internet please?
Like I say, post here and be prepared to debate.This is a "debate" subject location. Its what we do here. Don't let it bother you and don't be scared by all of the self-proclaimed experts here. Maybe Dr. Bob could kick in some good advice for you here, if he sees this.
Don't worry about the debating though, just another day in this part of the BBB and I for one will be praying for you tonight, as I'm sure others will too.
M
MalkyEL
Guest
Harry Potter books are full of witchcraft. All of the phrasing, incantations, and objects are straight out of the occult and wiccan pratices.
God is so clear...and He doesn't think witchcraft is cute, amusing or something to be enjoyed by children or adults. In fact, isn't it interesting that it is one of the things listed that are an abomination to God in Revelation and the other NT books.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Acts 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.
19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.
[Strong's #4021 - curious arts:
1) busy about trifles and neglectful of important matters
a) esp. busy about other folks' affairs, a busybody
b) of things: impertinent and superfluous
1) of magic arts]
God is so clear...and He doesn't think witchcraft is cute, amusing or something to be enjoyed by children or adults. In fact, isn't it interesting that it is one of the things listed that are an abomination to God in Revelation and the other NT books.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Acts 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.
19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.
[Strong's #4021 - curious arts:
1) busy about trifles and neglectful of important matters
a) esp. busy about other folks' affairs, a busybody
b) of things: impertinent and superfluous
1) of magic arts]
There are demons present more than you could ever believe in this country. The ungodly are getting more and more brazen and bold while often the Christians are rolling over and playing dead.
Personally I have seen their control three times. Once was through some deacons in a church I was pastoring. I have seen men under their control and the stupid things they will do. Two deacons in a church I pastored became very angry one day when I preached on gossip. I thought one of them was going to attack me. I was afraid of what he might do. I even saw some of them speak in such a way that I knew it was not them. While I was pastoring there I uncovered some ungodly things and called them what they were. Some of the deacons were angry and started gossiping about me. They said things about me that had never been said nor were they in agreement with my lifelong character. Many godly men and women have had some serious battles with those controlled by demons. During that time I did experience God's hand upon me in such a way that I had never experienced before. Some of those deacons were a part of a local Christian organization that would invite the local Mormon bishop to come and preach. I led in the fight against that kind of practice. All of the local pastors backed me in this. But the deacons eventually asked me to resign. Four years later I visited one of the pastors and he asked me about what I experienced there in regards to the demonic.
I have friends who live in Salt Lake City and they tell me it is like a black cloud over the city.
Matin Luther experienced them and threw an ink well at them.
Perhaps some of you do know that it wasn't long ago that the Royal Ambassadors in the SBC modelled their program after the Masons until it was exposed.
Personally I have seen their control three times. Once was through some deacons in a church I was pastoring. I have seen men under their control and the stupid things they will do. Two deacons in a church I pastored became very angry one day when I preached on gossip. I thought one of them was going to attack me. I was afraid of what he might do. I even saw some of them speak in such a way that I knew it was not them. While I was pastoring there I uncovered some ungodly things and called them what they were. Some of the deacons were angry and started gossiping about me. They said things about me that had never been said nor were they in agreement with my lifelong character. Many godly men and women have had some serious battles with those controlled by demons. During that time I did experience God's hand upon me in such a way that I had never experienced before. Some of those deacons were a part of a local Christian organization that would invite the local Mormon bishop to come and preach. I led in the fight against that kind of practice. All of the local pastors backed me in this. But the deacons eventually asked me to resign. Four years later I visited one of the pastors and he asked me about what I experienced there in regards to the demonic.
I have friends who live in Salt Lake City and they tell me it is like a black cloud over the city.
Matin Luther experienced them and threw an ink well at them.
Perhaps some of you do know that it wasn't long ago that the Royal Ambassadors in the SBC modelled their program after the Masons until it was exposed.
Spirit and Truth
New Member
Phillip:
How do you know demons congregate around a cemetary?
S&T:
I encountered a situation once with a lady who I knew, who lived next to a cemetary , had the supposed spirit of a small child who had drowned, and who was buried there talking to her. She was of sound mind, and this was the first time in her life she had ever encountered it. I met with her, explained the situation to her, and then went and walked in the cemetary, which was from the late 1600's. The situation was remedied, and she never heard the voice again. Do demonic entitiies congregate around cemetaries. I can not say with certainty, but I have heard of this type of situation occuring on numerous ocassions.
Phillip:
How do you know that a spirit will hang around an object used in an occult if no person is around?
S&T:
Bringing the occult into your home can open up a "window" for things to come in. I have experienced this also.
I am not here to debate this, as I have pressing business over on the passion thread, so I must go.
How do you know demons congregate around a cemetary?
S&T:
I encountered a situation once with a lady who I knew, who lived next to a cemetary , had the supposed spirit of a small child who had drowned, and who was buried there talking to her. She was of sound mind, and this was the first time in her life she had ever encountered it. I met with her, explained the situation to her, and then went and walked in the cemetary, which was from the late 1600's. The situation was remedied, and she never heard the voice again. Do demonic entitiies congregate around cemetaries. I can not say with certainty, but I have heard of this type of situation occuring on numerous ocassions.
Phillip:
How do you know that a spirit will hang around an object used in an occult if no person is around?
S&T:
Bringing the occult into your home can open up a "window" for things to come in. I have experienced this also.
I am not here to debate this, as I have pressing business over on the passion thread, so I must go.
Spirit and Truth
New Member
quote:
Perhaps some of you do know that it wasn't long ago that the Royal Ambassadors in the SBC modelled their program after the Masons until it was exposed.
S&T:
Please elaborate on this.
Perhaps some of you do know that it wasn't long ago that the Royal Ambassadors in the SBC modelled their program after the Masons until it was exposed.
S&T:
Please elaborate on this.
Sorry, but you're incorrect. Magic wands and broomsticks are fictitious, having nothing to do with real wicca. The origins of such things actually stems from medieval Christian invented folklore. The "phraseings" in the books are also contrived. JK Rowling simply "latinized" the phrases to make them sound interesting. I have yet to find a genuine wiccan incantation resembling "oculus repairum" that will repair my broken glasses.
Anyhoo, rather than hijack this thread into a Harry Potter debate, I prefer to get back to the topic at hand.
mlg: sorry to have initially expressed skepticism about your problem. Often people, not necessarily in this site, but in Christian blog sites and such, will post things about demons, just to mess with the Christians and try to get them to swarm the comment with zealous advice.
Also sorry to soar off into the controversy over Harry Potter and psychiatric medicines.
Ceasing any medication must be done with consulting doctors and discussing it with medical experts: I actually did do it that way, and my doctor was in favor of my attempt at natural and spiritual cure of my problem. God healed my mind, and continues to heal and bless.
mlg: I am praying for you. The Word of God, the presence of Christ in you, fellowship with other Christians in a good Bible preaching church, your own diligent prayer life--all will work wonderfully to rid you of any demonic influence.
Forget the occult garbage of relatives. Their sin cannot impact you. Spells and potions are totally useless against the Holy Spirit. Study and memorize appropriate verses about God's protection (see Psalms for great verses).
Also sorry to soar off into the controversy over Harry Potter and psychiatric medicines.
Ceasing any medication must be done with consulting doctors and discussing it with medical experts: I actually did do it that way, and my doctor was in favor of my attempt at natural and spiritual cure of my problem. God healed my mind, and continues to heal and bless.
mlg: I am praying for you. The Word of God, the presence of Christ in you, fellowship with other Christians in a good Bible preaching church, your own diligent prayer life--all will work wonderfully to rid you of any demonic influence.
Forget the occult garbage of relatives. Their sin cannot impact you. Spells and potions are totally useless against the Holy Spirit. Study and memorize appropriate verses about God's protection (see Psalms for great verses).
Spirit and Truth
New Member
Bob stated:
Let's stick with BIBLICAL FACTS and not hyperbole and ANECDOTAL STORIES that are trite and meaningless.
S&T:
I hope that you are not referring to my post.
Let's stick with BIBLICAL FACTS and not hyperbole and ANECDOTAL STORIES that are trite and meaningless.
S&T:
I hope that you are not referring to my post.
You be the judge. "I knew a lady who live by a cemetery . ." sounds like an anecdotal story.
"Bringing the occult like Harry Potter into your home opens yoiu up . . ." sounds like Bill Gothard tripe.
"I had a poltergeist . . "
"I have friends in Salt Lake . . . "
"I have deacons . . "
Now if someone said "Our church organist is demon possessed", EVERYONE would have agreed and there would be no discussion here!
"Bringing the occult like Harry Potter into your home opens yoiu up . . ." sounds like Bill Gothard tripe.
"I had a poltergeist . . "
"I have friends in Salt Lake . . . "
"I have deacons . . "
Now if someone said "Our church organist is demon possessed", EVERYONE would have agreed and there would be no discussion here!
M
MalkyEL
Guest
Phillip wrote: Where and what is your authority on this?
Is it Biblical (and if so where) or is this from an "Occult expert"?
MalkyEL: I have seriously studied demonology for several years, and have some close friends that have been part of the occult at one time. Recently, I have also talked with several demon possessed people and have asked them numerous questions about the demonic realm. I have also experienced a demonic presence on several occasions. I do not claim to be an expert, but am willing to share what I know with others. God has placed me in a position to learn - this is His doing, not mine.
Eph 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".
This text implies a ranking army with officers in charge. satan is the head of all demonic forces taking with him one third of the angels when God cast him out of His Kingdom. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 tell the story of his beginning and his position in Heaven before his fall.
Phillip wrote:
Well, since we are posting on a "debate" site. hehe...I will ask you;
How do you know demons congregate around a cemetary?
MalkyEL: A couple of things from observation and from the testimony of a friend who was actively involved in the occult. demons have a propensity for death and for the macabre. I would say this is pretty well known. demons are also the opposite of God, Who is Love, Light, and Life. Perhaps you have noticed that objects, icons, imagery, and signs that make up the occult have to do with death, skulls, skeletons. Tell me that you have not seen increasing numbers of teens wearing ungodly and devilish clothing depicting ghoulish figures and imagery. Natural habitat would direct you to cemeteries and burial grounds. It is a well known fact that occultish sacrificial rites are often observed in cemeteries[wiccan, satanic]. Police records are an eye opener. I have seen the remains of such myself.
Phillip wrote:
How do you know that a spirit will hang around an object used in an occult if no person is around?
MalkyEL: Eye witness accounts. Also, in researching St Bridget of Sweden [one of the mystic nuns who had visions and apparitions that Mel took his artistic license from], there is a carved figure of Bridget that is mounted on a cathedral. There is only one figure, but "she" has been seen in three different facial poses and photographed - the pictures of the face show three different poses, eyes opened, eyes closed, eyes looking to the side, mouth smiling, mouth in a thin line, mouth with a half smile]. http://www.sanctabirgitta.com/ [click on the white statue on left] That is just one example. There are many references and stories, including TV specials, that record catholic relics and pictures that are shown crying and bleeding.
Phillip wrote:
For instance: if satan is a spirit, what prevents him from being omnipresent in our plane of existence? In Job he says "from walking up and down on the face of the Earth" why could this not be a figure-of-speech since he is a spiritual being. Just as "God hovered over the deep" in Genesis (ESV) (and we KNOW God is omnipresent.)
MalkyEL: A spiritual being such as demons and angels have the ability to move quickly [faster than a speeding bullet ] because they are not of this realm. That satan moved to and fro over the earth is not a problem for him - there is no restriction on time and space in the spiritual realm. You are correct, God is omnipresent - He is God and therefore can and does exist where He desires. satan is a created being, just like the other demons and angels - they are not omnipresent, they are a single spirit and unlike God are restricted - they may be fast, but not everywhere at once.
Phillip wrote:
If anybody threw her to the lions, you just did with your advice that only someone "trained" in spiritual warfare is going to help. I didn't see you tell her to reach out for the Lord...
MalkyEL: I think you missed my earlier posts. Also, in dealing with the spiritual realm one does need knowledge and training. I will qualify that answer by saying that God is able to use anyone to wage war against the enemy and His training may not be what our finite minds envision. God can and will use those He deems for His purpose. I will further qualify that to enter into spiritual warfare without the direction of God and the knowledge He provides in His Word, satan has all the options and will use them against you, making matters worse for the "victim".
However; my remarks are aimed at those who either have little demonic knowledge or try to "exorcise" the demons out of someone because they believe they can do it Jesus' Name without the instruction of the Holy Spirit [commonly viewed to as the "believer's authority][also refer to the sons of skeva in Acts]. Pastors, in general, do not have much discernment in demonics - a quick prayer does not cut it.
Recently, I dealt with two people who are possessed with demons who went to a pastor, got prayed over/with, and for a solid week were traumatized by their demons. I have also met people who have had demons rebuked, and within two weeks they have come back 7 times worse - as it is written.
What is needed is prayerful diligence, love, patience, a solid Word base, and a Spirit led approach [as stated from my earlier post]. This takes time and a Spirit led emphasis on God's Word.
Phillip wrote:
Obviously, you are not trained in the areas of spiritual warfare, so I suggest that we lay off "the Exorcist (as in the movie) tactics" and provide the girl with some encouragement to follow the Lord and visit with a good Christian Minister. Sorry to be so blunt here, but in the debate site, we call em like we see em and this lady is looking for help, not speculations into the functioning of the dark spirit world.
MalkyEL:
It may be your perception that I am not trained in spiritual warfare, but I defer to God's opinion and His calling. In no way have I remotely suggested an "exorcism" [ritual demon rebuking]. "Good Christian ministers" are far and few between - like playing russian roulette. I have been stating all along, we need to be knowledgeable in order to encourage and help:
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
You need to know the enemy to stand against him [eph 6].
Phillip wrote:
It might also be good if you do not offer your advice as a physical doctor as you are making assumptions of her physical condition without having even seen her. May I see your license to practice medicine on the internet please? Like I say, post here and be prepared to debate.
MalkyEL: Spiritual discernment as the Holy Spirit wills [1 Cor 12:11].
Phillip wrote:
Like I say, post here and be prepared to debate.
MalkyEL: Let the games begin
[ps to vaspers: when is it supposed to get rough ]
Is it Biblical (and if so where) or is this from an "Occult expert"?
MalkyEL: I have seriously studied demonology for several years, and have some close friends that have been part of the occult at one time. Recently, I have also talked with several demon possessed people and have asked them numerous questions about the demonic realm. I have also experienced a demonic presence on several occasions. I do not claim to be an expert, but am willing to share what I know with others. God has placed me in a position to learn - this is His doing, not mine.
Eph 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".
This text implies a ranking army with officers in charge. satan is the head of all demonic forces taking with him one third of the angels when God cast him out of His Kingdom. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 tell the story of his beginning and his position in Heaven before his fall.
Phillip wrote:
Well, since we are posting on a "debate" site. hehe...I will ask you;
How do you know demons congregate around a cemetary?
MalkyEL: A couple of things from observation and from the testimony of a friend who was actively involved in the occult. demons have a propensity for death and for the macabre. I would say this is pretty well known. demons are also the opposite of God, Who is Love, Light, and Life. Perhaps you have noticed that objects, icons, imagery, and signs that make up the occult have to do with death, skulls, skeletons. Tell me that you have not seen increasing numbers of teens wearing ungodly and devilish clothing depicting ghoulish figures and imagery. Natural habitat would direct you to cemeteries and burial grounds. It is a well known fact that occultish sacrificial rites are often observed in cemeteries[wiccan, satanic]. Police records are an eye opener. I have seen the remains of such myself.
Phillip wrote:
How do you know that a spirit will hang around an object used in an occult if no person is around?
MalkyEL: Eye witness accounts. Also, in researching St Bridget of Sweden [one of the mystic nuns who had visions and apparitions that Mel took his artistic license from], there is a carved figure of Bridget that is mounted on a cathedral. There is only one figure, but "she" has been seen in three different facial poses and photographed - the pictures of the face show three different poses, eyes opened, eyes closed, eyes looking to the side, mouth smiling, mouth in a thin line, mouth with a half smile]. http://www.sanctabirgitta.com/ [click on the white statue on left] That is just one example. There are many references and stories, including TV specials, that record catholic relics and pictures that are shown crying and bleeding.
Phillip wrote:
For instance: if satan is a spirit, what prevents him from being omnipresent in our plane of existence? In Job he says "from walking up and down on the face of the Earth" why could this not be a figure-of-speech since he is a spiritual being. Just as "God hovered over the deep" in Genesis (ESV) (and we KNOW God is omnipresent.)
MalkyEL: A spiritual being such as demons and angels have the ability to move quickly [faster than a speeding bullet
] because they are not of this realm. That satan moved to and fro over the earth is not a problem for him - there is no restriction on time and space in the spiritual realm. You are correct, God is omnipresent - He is God and therefore can and does exist where He desires. satan is a created being, just like the other demons and angels - they are not omnipresent, they are a single spirit and unlike God are restricted - they may be fast, but not everywhere at once.Phillip wrote:
If anybody threw her to the lions, you just did with your advice that only someone "trained" in spiritual warfare is going to help. I didn't see you tell her to reach out for the Lord...
MalkyEL: I think you missed my earlier posts. Also, in dealing with the spiritual realm one does need knowledge and training. I will qualify that answer by saying that God is able to use anyone to wage war against the enemy and His training may not be what our finite minds envision. God can and will use those He deems for His purpose. I will further qualify that to enter into spiritual warfare without the direction of God and the knowledge He provides in His Word, satan has all the options and will use them against you, making matters worse for the "victim".
However; my remarks are aimed at those who either have little demonic knowledge or try to "exorcise" the demons out of someone because they believe they can do it Jesus' Name without the instruction of the Holy Spirit [commonly viewed to as the "believer's authority][also refer to the sons of skeva in Acts]. Pastors, in general, do not have much discernment in demonics - a quick prayer does not cut it.
Recently, I dealt with two people who are possessed with demons who went to a pastor, got prayed over/with, and for a solid week were traumatized by their demons. I have also met people who have had demons rebuked, and within two weeks they have come back 7 times worse - as it is written.
What is needed is prayerful diligence, love, patience, a solid Word base, and a Spirit led approach [as stated from my earlier post]. This takes time and a Spirit led emphasis on God's Word.
Phillip wrote:
Obviously, you are not trained in the areas of spiritual warfare, so I suggest that we lay off "the Exorcist (as in the movie) tactics" and provide the girl with some encouragement to follow the Lord and visit with a good Christian Minister. Sorry to be so blunt here, but in the debate site, we call em like we see em and this lady is looking for help, not speculations into the functioning of the dark spirit world.
MalkyEL:
It may be your perception that I am not trained in spiritual warfare, but I defer to God's opinion and His calling. In no way have I remotely suggested an "exorcism" [ritual demon rebuking]. "Good Christian ministers" are far and few between - like playing russian roulette. I have been stating all along, we need to be knowledgeable in order to encourage and help:
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
You need to know the enemy to stand against him [eph 6].
Phillip wrote:
It might also be good if you do not offer your advice as a physical doctor as you are making assumptions of her physical condition without having even seen her. May I see your license to practice medicine on the internet please? Like I say, post here and be prepared to debate.
MalkyEL: Spiritual discernment as the Holy Spirit wills [1 Cor 12:11].
Phillip wrote:
Like I say, post here and be prepared to debate.
MalkyEL: Let the games begin
[ps to vaspers: when is it supposed to get rough
]Spirit and Truth
New Member
Bob:
You be the judge. "I knew a lady who live by a cemetery . ." sounds like an anecdotal story.
S&T:
I was there, I was an active participant, this lady was of sound mind, and as a matter of fact, she was the wife of a friend of mine since childhood. The problem was real, the problem was alleviated. I can not speak for anyone else on the board. Just because some churches act kooky about this stuff, it does not eliminate the fact that there is real demonic movement. Another good friend of mines wife was pinned up against a wall by a demonic force. When he went to help her, he was pinned and then slammed to the floor. They were messin with stuff that they shouldn't have been messin with. He is now in the ministry.
You be the judge. "I knew a lady who live by a cemetery . ." sounds like an anecdotal story.
S&T:
I was there, I was an active participant, this lady was of sound mind, and as a matter of fact, she was the wife of a friend of mine since childhood. The problem was real, the problem was alleviated. I can not speak for anyone else on the board. Just because some churches act kooky about this stuff, it does not eliminate the fact that there is real demonic movement. Another good friend of mines wife was pinned up against a wall by a demonic force. When he went to help her, he was pinned and then slammed to the floor. They were messin with stuff that they shouldn't have been messin with. He is now in the ministry.