Description and cause of lukewarm assembly?

[Yeshua1]

The world has always been in rebellion ever since Cain was born. It's foolishness to think the world is worse today than it has ever been. Goodness, there was a time the earth was so corrupt that God washed it away in a great flood.
Are we moving toward the great fire? Yes, without a doubt. What holds back God's fury? The last child to be adopted has not yet been adopted.
Instead of looking at how evil the world is, let us look to share the gospel with every living human so that they might possibly respond to the call of reconciliation and believe. We cannot stop until Christ returns and judges the unreconciled reprobates. Let us do our job as God's children.
Let us get our priorities straight. We have a job to do. Let us do it, no matter the opposition.

We have been given our marching orders, to occupy until he returns!

 

[HankD]

I just do not want myself or anyone else ashamed at His coming!

we will probably all be ashamed.

 

[AustinC]

we will probably all be ashamed.

Of course we will all be ashamed. We all are as filthy rags.
Our only justification for entering heavens doors is that, by God's grace, God placed us into Christ Jesus. It is because of Christ's holiness that we enter, not because of any virtue we claim as wretched sinners in this life we live. If we imagine that we won't be groveling for mercy due to our sin, we imagine falsely.

 

[Salty]

Generally, spiritual milk was on the menu for the Sunday morning service and spiritual meat in the Sunday evening service.

Additional in-depth study on Wednesday evenings.

Usually, no Sunday or Wednesday evening services today. End result, only spiritual milk is consumed resulting in spiritually stunted believers.

The Church I was saved at (and Baptized) had Sun AM and Sun PM services
Wed night - the pastor did NOT preach - he did a 15 min Bible study.

Then we spent the next 45 min to an hour in Prayer time
Broken down into Men, Women, teens and children

We saw our church grow thruout the decade after I became a member.
and seeing that we are up North - 50% of our county is Roman Catholic
So that increase was dramatic.

I believe that it is important that a church have a strong prayer meeting.
Our church calls it the Hour of Power.

Is our Prayer Life strong enough?

 

[Dave G]

What is missing in BOTH styles is warnings about SIN! Where are the John the Baptists today? Very few modern preachers would have to worry about be beheaded today for calling out a sinner for their sins.

You won't find those in the vast majority of churches in the USA today.

In fact, most Baptist churches I've been in within the past 40 years ( and I've been in some from California to Massachusetts, Michigan, Illinois and other states between ) would be hard-pressed to preach any more than a very limited view of the Scriptures.

Amazingly, I do hear about some exceptions to this every once in a while...
In out-of-the-way places like the hills of Kentucky, Tennessee and West Virginia;

But definitely nowhere near me.

 

[Dave G]

better to have our churches and ourselves clean up our oen business before He has to!

That would take a miracle in my area of the USA, Dave.
One that I don't see it happening in my lifetime.

If I manage to find that by God's grace, I'll let you know.
For now, nearly everyone in my area who professes Christ is content to follow false teachers and false teachings.
We are in the last of the last days, and to me, it shows on every street corner.

In other words, preaching the truth makes no difference when no one is listening.

 

[Dave G]

We have been given our marching orders, to occupy until he returns!

Occupy what?
Have you taken a look at what passes ( in most places ) for a local assembly ( and I'm talking about Baptist churches, not anyone else ) lately?

If you want to take part in a "spectator sport" that badgers people into paying their "weekly dues", sends their young people off to "bible college" where there are other men who charge their brothers and sisters money to teach them "how to read and understand God's word", surrounds themselves with all the comforts of home ( and then some ) and feeds them a warm and fuzzy ( spiritually dead ) sermon every Sunday, never allows the members to exercise their spiritual gifts, browbeats people who bring up Bible passages that aren't "approved" by the all-powerful-and-never-to-be-questioned pastor and quenches the Holy Spirit with jokes and humor from the pulpit, that is your prerogative...

I've dug a foxhole and I'm going to occupy that until the Lord comes and He causes the shelling to stop.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That would take a miracle in my area of the USA, Dave.

One that I don't see it happening in my lifetime.
If I manage to find that by God's grace, I'll let you know.
For now, nearly everyone in my area who professes Christ is content to follow false teachers and false teachings.

In other words, preaching the truth makes no difference when no one is listening.

I can relate to that and it frustrated me for a long time. However I find unity in Christ in ways that God gives me. A catholic friend that loves Christ and extends himself to people, a friend on this board who went out to me in times of desperation and still checks on me, my wife who loves me ... even when I’m an idiot and forgives me, a brother who is there for me even when he is under the gun. Each of these people are believers and they have altered there lives in order to be like Christ. Guess what I’m saying is that these relationships with Gods people provides unity where we make a difference for Christ in his kingdom

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Occupy what?
Have you taken a look at what passes ( in most places ) for a local assembly ( and I'm talking about Baptist churches, not anyone else ) lately?

If you want to take part in a "spectator sport" that badgers people into paying their "weekly dues", sends their young people off to "bible college" where there are other men who charge their brothers and sisters money to teach them "how to read and understand God's word", surrounds themselves with all the comforts of home ( and then some ) and feeds them a warm and fuzzy ( spiritually dead ) sermon every Sunday, never allows the members to exercise their spiritual gifts, browbeats people who bring up Bible passages that aren't "approved" by the all-powerful-and-never-to-be-questioned pastor and quenches the Holy Spirit with jokes and humor from the pulpit, that is your prerogative...

I've dug a foxhole and I'm going to occupy that until the Lord comes and He causes the shelling to stop.

I can relate to that and it frustrated me for a long time. However I find unity in Christ in ways that God gives me. A catholic friend that loves Christ and extends himself to people, a friend on this board who went out to me in times of desperation and still checks on me, my wife who loves me ... even when I’m an idiot and forgives me, a brother who is there for me even when he is under the gun. Each of these people are believers and they have altered there lives in order to be like Christ. Guess what I’m saying is that these relationships with Gods people provides unity where we make a difference for Christ in his kingdom

Dave please.... don’t give up, not where God is concerned. Should you want to converse...just reach out!

 

[Scarlett O.]

What a dreary thread!!

Yes, there are some pathetic churches out there.

Not mine!!! We are not perfect, but we are led by a man who preaches the truth - even when it steps on the toes and kicks the shins of the listeners.

The Holy Spirit is sought out. People are saved. People are working.

Let's talk about some good things going one in our churches that are entrenched in Christ.

 

[Dave G]

We are not perfect, but we are led by a man who preaches the truth

One of my points is, we shouldn't be led by one man at all, except for Jesus Christ.

It seems to me as if everyone on this forum is just going along with "the Catholic model"...
A "super-Christian" who runs the whole thing.

People, that's not how it's supposed to be.
There is no hierarchy in the body of Christ.

No "lieutenant" with "sergeants" and the rest as "privates".
Read the book of Acts...

Paul and Barnabas ordained elderS in every city, not a singular "priest" ( pastor ).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

One of my points is, we shouldn't be led by one man at all, except for Jesus Christ.

It seems to me as if everyone on this forum is just going along with "the Catholic model"...
A "super-Christian" who runs the whole thing.

People, that's not how it's supposed to be.
There is no hierarchy in the body of Christ.

No "lieutenant" with "sergeants" and the rest as "privates".
Read the book of Acts...

Paul and Barnabas ordained elderS in every city, not a singular "priest" ( pastor ).

Yes, you are looking for a true baptist church vs church INC and that’s understandable. Seriously, I’ve found that amongst the Primitive Baptist’s. Unfortunately there are no PB churches in my state. My son moved to Winter Garden FL and there is one there... but that would require me to move there.

wintergardenpbc.com

 

[Scarlett O.]

One of my points is, we shouldn't be led by one man at all, except for Jesus Christ.

It seems to me as if everyone on this forum is just going along with "the Catholic model"...
A "super-Christian" who runs the whole thing.

People, that's not how it's supposed to be.
There is no hierarchy in the body of Christ.

No "lieutenant" with "sergeants" and the rest as "privates".
Read the book of Acts...

Paul and Barnabas ordained elderS in every city, not a singular "priest" ( pastor ).

Good gravy, I hope that's not what you think I said.

We have all kinds of leaders in my church who work and take action. People in this thread were talking about the preaching. So .... told about my pastor. He has a place of leadership, too. The primary one.

~ le sigh ~

 

[Salty]

Good gravy, I hope that's not what you think I said.

We have all kinds of leaders in my church who work and take action. People in this thread were talking about the preaching. So .... told about my pastor. He has a place of leadership, too. The primary one.

~ le sigh ~

But then we have the church I pastor - due to previous situations before I became pastor - we are extremly small. Other than the clerk and treasurer - I am the only leader of our church. There are no deacons (whom I do not believe are leaders) and we have no elders - mainly there are no men qualified to hold those positions.

One member told me he would support me - no matter what! I told him that thinking was incorrect. We should follow Christ. And I trust that I am.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The church is not an end in itself; the church is a means. The Kingdom is the end. And whenever we make the means into the end, we have created an idol & idol worship is a major sin in the Bible.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The church is not an end in itself; the church is a means. The Kingdom is the end. And whenever we make the means into the end, we have created an idol & idol worship is a major sin in the Bible.

I will add this and then I am done here. Where you see disunity, lay down your life until there is unity. What else would the cross be? What else will redeem this broken world. (Remember we are new creatures trying to be like Christ).

 

[Dave G]

Since we are to withdraw from a brother who is a backslider, we should avoid contaminating our assembly by inviting the lost into our midst.

Wesley,
I have never understood the modern approach to "evangelism", which has evolved into bringing the unbeliever's unto the assemblies of believers.
Some call them "seeker sensitive" churches.

Contrary to this, I clearly see where the Lord had Paul and the rest go out, preach the Gospel, and those that believed were then established as local churches.
For many years now I have been convinced that anything other than this method is not God's way, but man's way.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Wesley,
I have never understood the modern approach to "evangelism", which has evolved into bringing the unbeliever's unto the assemblies of believers.
Some call them "seeker sensitive" churches.

Contrary to this, I clearly see where the Lord had Paul and the rest go out, preach the Gospel, and those that believed were then established as local churches.
For many years now I have been convinced that anything other than this method is not God's way, but man's way.

So you are saying that the only way to evangelize is by works... ie going out?

 

[Dave G]

So you are saying that the only way to evangelize is by works... ie going out?

What I'm saying is that there are only two types of evangelism...
Either one brings the unbeliever into the midst of believers ( which violates Biblical separation ), or one does as the Lord had Paul do...

Go out among them and preach the Gospel.

Truly, the only genuine evangelism is by the power of the Holy Spirit, so if it's being done biblically, then we should be seeing the same pattern as what happened with Paul and Barnabas / Silas.

Put bluntly, I don't see much of what passes today for evangelism as being biblical.


Back to the OP:
People often ask why things are lukewarm, spiritually, in many assemblies... and I think the reason should be obvious.

There's Someone lacking in the assemblies...not something.
The cause of a lukewarm assembly is a lack of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave G]

He has a place of leadership, too. The primary one.

I think you may have missed my point, but perhaps I've misunderstood you as well.

So far, almost everyone I talk to that attends traditional churches, seems to be looking to their pastors as "leaders" in some sense.
They have this mindset that automatically assigns their pastor as "high priest" over them, not the wise and godly brothers-who-have-made-every-mistake-they-have-and-learned-from-them men that they really are.
They are not leaders, and we do not follow them.
They are wise elders whom God has put there to watch over His people, shepherding the sheep.

They do not lead them, they feed them.
They teach them the Scriptures, admonish and edify them, and watch for wolves.

They do not "lead" by example ( as our only example is Christ ), they function as patient instructors and watchers and exemplify Christ to the local assembly.
They've been through everything their flock has been through, and they offer advice to others who may be having difficulties in their own walk and point them constantly to the source of what is sufficient for everything:

God's word, and only God's word.


So, they are not leaders in the secular sense, nor are they to be looked at and put on pedestals above everyone.
That is their Saviour's place, Scarlett.

As an example of downplaying what we as men commonly tend to do when it comes to esteeming men, Jesus Christ did not tell Peter to lead His sheep...
He told Peter to feed His sheep.

We already have a leader... Jesus Christ.
He leads, we follow ( John 10:27 ).
He enjoys the primary place of leadership, not the pastor...which shouldn't be occupied by only one man anyway, from my perspective.