Did Eve Lie To The Serpent?

[webdog]

What about it?
They are narratives.
Why should a Christian turn to narratives and override the didactic portions of Exodus 20?
Should Christian men take more than one wife?
There are plenty of narratives in the Bible where this is done and no condemnation is spoken of.

Narratives are not to be taken as truth, particularly when we receive them from Scripture? Fact is these people weren't being fully honest (including Jesus as He "made He was going to go further" with no intention of doing so)

Should Christian men take more than one wife? No way! Polygamy is against the law here in the US...which is sin. Besides, I have a hard enough time with one!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

How can one say Jesus had no intention of going farther. It is quite evident by the fact that the compelled Him to tarry that He had every intention of going farther had they not compelled Him.

My Lord is not and never was dishonest.

 

[webdog]

How can one say Jesus had no intention of going farther. It is quite evident by the fact that the compelled Him to tarry that He had every intention of going farther had they not compelled Him.

You don't "make" as you are doing something if you intend to do it...you just do it. Scripture doesn't say He was planning on going further, It says He "made" as if He were going further. You can substitute pretend for made and the meaning is the same.

My Lord isn't dishonest in a sinful sense either. There is no sin found in Him. All incidents of not telling the truth are not considerd sin, as we see in Scripture.

What about when the woman with the bleeding problem touched His robe? He asked "who touched Me?"

 

[standingfirminChrist]

What about when the woman with the bleeding problem touched His robe? He asked "who touched Me?"

What about it?

Surely you aren't accusing Him of being dishonest there too?

 

[webdog]

What about it?

Surely you aren't accusing Him of being dishonest there too?

Did He know...or was He really suprised?

30And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

31And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
32And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.
33But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth. 34And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Yup, seems to me He knew exactly who did it!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Did He know...or was He really suprised?

30And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

31And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
32And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.
33But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth. 34And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Yup, seems to me He knew exactly who did it!

Sure He knew who touched Him. Asking who touched Him does not make Him dishonest.

 

[webdog]

Sure He knew who touched Him. Asking who touched Him does not make Him dishonest.

So if I asked you "who are you" while knowing you...that is a truthful question?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So if I asked you "who are you" while knowing you...that is a truthful question?

Did it ever occur to you that Jesus wanted the woman who touched Him to be honest?

She could have called Him first to help her, but she touched Him... not out of dishonesty, but of faith.

He said who touched me because He felt the virtue leave Him. He asked her so she would be honest with Him and so all around Him could see her faith.

 

[webdog]

Did it ever occur to you that Jesus wanted the woman who touched Him to be honest?

She could have called Him first to help her, but she touched Him... not out of dishonesty, but of faith.

He said who touched me because He felt the virtue leave Him. He asked her so she would be honest with Him and so all around Him could see her faith.

Let's see...so He PRETENDED to not know (regardless of the reason, you are right, btw)...kind of like PRETENDING to go further with those two men!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

NO, He did not pretend to not know who touched Him. Nor was He deceptive to the two men on the road to Emmaeus. For, had they not compelled Him (you do know what compelled means, don't you? Look it up), He no doubt would have gone farther.

My Jesus is not a deceiver. The Bible tells me who the deceiver is. It is the same one who will twist God's Word to make it look like God was trying to deceive.

 

[webdog]

NO, He did not pretend to not know who touched Him. Nor was He deceptive to the two men on the road to Emmaeus. For, had they not compelled Him (you do know what compelled means, don't you? Look it up), He no doubt would have gone farther.

My Jesus is not a deceiver. The Bible tells me who the deceiver is. It is the same one who will twist God's Word to make it look like God was trying to deceive.

You are something else. So He was asking a truthful question, "who touched me?" Was it a truthful question, yes or no...regardless why he asked it.

You are twisting God's Word to say what you want it to say. There is only truth and that which is not truth. If Jesus' question was truthful, you are left with Him not knowing who touched Him. You yourself stated He knew who touched Him. The ONLY OTHER OPTION you have is the question was not truthful, and that doesn't mean not telling the truth is sin, either!

 

[Amy.G]

There is nothing dishonest about Christ's question to the woman or acting as if He was going farther on the road to Emmaus.

It was common for Christ to ask questions He already knew the answer to.
"Whom do you seek?". "Who touched me?" He did this for the benefit of the bystanders. Just like His prayer to the Father when He raised Lazarus from the dead.



Regarding the 2 men on the road to Emmaus.

Luk 24:28 Then they drew near to the village where they were going, and He indicated that He would have gone farther.

This could also be translated "acted as if".

This was the perception of the two men. Jesus didn't actually say He was going farther, He probably just kept walking, knowing all along they would constrain Him and ask Him to stay.

No deception in any instance.

 

[webdog]

There is nothing dishonest about Christ's question to the woman or acting as if He was going farther on the road to Emmaus.

It was common for Christ to ask questions He already knew the answer to.
"Whom do you seek?". "Who touched me?" He did this for the benefit of the bystanders. Just like His prayer to the Father when He raised Lazarus from the dead.



Regarding the 2 men on the road to Emmaus.

Luk 24:28 Then they drew near to the village where they were going, and He indicated that He would have gone farther.

This could also be translated "acted as if".

This was the perception of the two men. Jesus didn't actually say He was going farther, He probably just kept walking, knowing all along they would constrain Him and ask Him to stay.

No deception in any instance.

Deception, however, is defined as "intentionally misleading or providing untruthful information, any concealment, withholding information from participant, trickery, or deceit."

Deception is not necessarily sin, but can be.

Truthfulness is defined as ...
expressing or given to expressing the truth; "a true statement"; "gave truthful testimony"; "a truthful person"
conforming to truth; "I wouldn't have told you this if it weren't so"; "a truthful statement"

 

[Amy.G]

Deception, however, is defined as "intentionally misleading or providing untruthful information, any concealment, withholding information from participant, trickery, or deceit."

Deception is not necessarily sin.

I don't think He deceived anybody. And deceit is sin.


Psa 101:7 He who works deceit shall not dwell within my house; He who tells lies shall not continue in my presence.

 

[webdog]

I don't think He deceived anybody. And deceit is sin.


Psa 101:7 He who works deceit shall not dwell within my house; He who tells lies shall not continue in my presence.

True, deceit in that passage is referring to sin, but deceit done sinfully is only one avenue of deception. Hagar didn't sin by using deception to hide the israelite spies, did she? It was clearly deception, though.

If I hid my family and told an intruder I was the only one home, I would be employing the same kind deception, but I would not be sinning. There is a difference.

Deception is also "intentionally misleading"...exactly what Jesus did on the road with the two dudes.

 

[webdog]

Telling the truth is not sin, but you can sin by telling the truth (what I would be doing by telling the intruder exactly where my family is so they would be in harms way)

 

[Amy.G]

True, deceit in that passage is referring to sin, but deceit done sinfully is only one avenue of deception. Hagar didn't sin by using deception to hide the israelite spies, did she? It was clearly deception, though.

If I hid my family and told an intruder I was the only one home, I would be employing the same kind deception, but I would not be sinning. There is a difference.

Deception is also "intentionally misleading"...exactly what Jesus did on the road with the two dudes.

Two dudes. :laugh:


I really don't see Jesus being deceptive. I think in everything He did and said it was with the purpose of teaching. Much like when you ask your little boy a question that you already know the answer to, but do it in order for him to learn. That's not deception.

Also, do a word search on "deceit". I don't think you'll find it used in a positive way in any scripture.

Deceit is purposeful, willful misleading for selfish gain.

 

[Dale-c]

One thing I would caution everyone here:
We don't decide what Jesus did or did not do based on what we think is right and wrong.
We decide that if Jesus did something, it was right for Him to do what He did.

When you get the cart before the horse, it gets you into all kinds of trouble, like saying that the wine Jesus drank wasn't real wine because of a presupposition rather than saying that moderate drinking must be ok since Jesus did it.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

One thing I would caution everyone here:
We don't decide what Jesus did or did not do based on what we think is right and wrong.
We decide that if Jesus did something, it was right for Him to do what He did.

When you get the cart before the horse, it gets you into all kinds of trouble, like saying that the wine Jesus drank wasn't real wine because of a presupposition rather than saying that moderate drinking must be ok since Jesus did it.

There is not a single Scripture in the Word of God that says Jesus drank wine. Why do you constantly say He did?

 

[Dale-c]

There is not a single Scripture in the Word of God that says Jesus drank wine. Why do you constantly say He did?

Because there is a verse, but since you force your opinions on the text, you change what Jesus actually did, rather than basing your doctrine on what He did.