Did Eve Lie To The Serpent?

[standingfirminChrist]

Because there is a verse, but since you force your opinions on the text, you change what Jesus actually did, rather than basing your doctrine on what He did.

Where is this verse that you seem to know is there?

 

[Dale-c]

Where is this verse that you seem to know is there?

We have been over this before. You do not believe it is talking about real wine.
So why do I think I could convince you now?

If the Bible said that Jesus drank wine with 13.4% alcohol vol you would probably still come up with a way to squeeze out of it.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

We have been over this before. You do not believe it is talking about real wine.
So why do I think I could convince you now?

If the Bible said that Jesus drank wine with 13.4% alcohol vol you would probably still come up with a way to squeeze out of it.

In other words, you can't produce one single verse to say Jesus drank wine.

 

[nunatak]

Isn't the greek for "fruit of the vine" a figurative expression for wine?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Isn't the greek for "fruit of the vine" a figurative expression for wine?

NO, it isn't. The fruit of the vine is the grape. Its juice can be made into wine

 

[Amy.G]

I don't recall a verse that says Jesus drank wine. I think it's inferred because He was accused of being a drunkard.

 

[nunatak]

Don't know if this makes any difference, but here is a quote from Barnes:

"Fruit of the vine - “Wine, the fruit or produce” of the vine made of the grapes of the vine.
Until that day - Probably the time when they should be received to heaven. It does not mean here on earth, further than that they would partake with him in the happiness of spreading the gospel and the triumphs of his kingdom.
When I drink it new with you - Not that he would partake with them of literal wine there, but in the thing represented by it. Wine was an important part of the feast of the Passover, and of all feasts. The kingdom of heaven is often represented under the image of a feast. It means that he will partake of joy with them in heaven; that they will share together the honors and happiness of the heavenly world."

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I don't recall a verse that says Jesus drank wine. I think it's inferred because He was accused of being a drunkard.

Thank you, Amy.

I have read through the Bible several times and cannot recall any verses that said He drank wine other than in false accusations.

Seems some still want to accuse Him.

 

[nunatak]

Thank you, Amy.

I have read through the Bible several times and cannot recall any verses that said He drank wine other than in false accusations.

Seems some still want to accuse Him.

If you are referring to me you are really a stinker. To me whether Christ imbibed is a nonissue.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Don't know if this makes any difference, but here is a quote from Barnes:

"Fruit of the vine - “Wine, the fruit or produce” of the vine made of the grapes of the vine.
Until that day - Probably the time when they should be received to heaven. It does not mean here on earth, further than that they would partake with him in the happiness of spreading the gospel and the triumphs of his kingdom.
When I drink it new with you - Not that he would partake with them of literal wine there, but in the thing represented by it. Wine was an important part of the feast of the Passover, and of all feasts. The kingdom of heaven is often represented under the image of a feast. It means that he will partake of joy with them in heaven; that they will share together the honors and happiness of the heavenly world."

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.'

New wine is not alcoholic. It is the pure blood of the grape, not a process of decay.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If you are referring to me you are really a stinker. To me whether Christ imbibed is a nonissue.

You were posting at the time I was typing my reply to Amy. I had not even seen this post yet.

But it stands. Many still want to accuse Christ of being a wine drinker and yet, as the King of kings He would not have partook of that which clouds the mind and perverts the judgment.

Solomon did not say 'It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to get drunk...' No, He said 'It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine." Kings were not even to drink wine. If they did, it was in rebellion.

 

[saved and sure]

Communication may have been a problem between a man and his wife even then.

Since God only told Adam that he was not to eat of the tree and not the woman, Adam must have either communicated to Eve incorrectly or Eve did not listen to what Adam said. It happens.:smilewinkgrin:

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Eve may have read more into God’s command to Adam then was intended. Seems to happen a lot today also.

Dave

 

[HankD]

I believe 'the truth' reffered to here is the gospel, the word of God, and/or the 'Christian Life'. My basis for saying this and for asking the original question is that Rahab lied and was blessed of God for it. There are others who lied and recieved no condemnation for it.
In context of 1 John 2, the 'truth' is a true life, true salvation, true works, which are true to your position as a saint, etc.

Well that somewhat plausible brother and I need to think about that but for the moment, I would rather take the verse as it is on the surface.

"no lie is of the truth".

HankD

 

[David Lamb]

Sure He knew who touched Him. Asking who touched Him does not make Him dishonest.

Yes, I agree. He was the Teacher. When a teacher poses a question to pupils, it is not (usually) with the intention of gaining knowledge for himself/herself. I remember my chemistry teacher at school making a great thing about valencies. "You must remember your valencies," and "A valency is the number of hydrogen atoms with which an atom of an element will combine or replace," were almost catchphrases with her. But if she asked me, "What is the valency of oxygen?" it certainly was not because she didn't know it, and was reduced to asking me to supply that knowledge. :laugh:

If we say that when Jesus asked a question, it was to gain knowledge for Himself, we would have to conclude (ridiculously) either that He was unable to count to ten, or that He had short-term memory problems, for after healing ten lepers, He asked in Luke 17.17: "Were there not ten cleansed?"

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Because of the dictionary.

Bearing false witness is a falshood in a legal matter. This is saying that a neigbor did something that he did not do. There are also false accusations. A 'false witness' is just that:saying you witnessed something which you did not. That is saying 'Jonny took that candy bar', as opposed to 'I didn't take the candy bar'. Both can be lies, but only the first is false witness against a neighbor.

The Westminster Larger Catechism provides this understanding:

Question 143: Which is the ninth commandment?

Answer: The ninth commandment is, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Question 144: What are the duties required in the ninth commandment?

Answer: The duties required in the ninth commandment are, the preserving and promoting of truth between man and man, and the good name of our neighbor, as well as our own; appearing and standing for the truth; and from the heart, sincerely, freely, clearly, and fully, speaking the truth, and only the truth, in matters of judgment and justice, and in all other things: Whatsoever; a charitable esteem of our neighbors; loving, desiring, and rejoicing in their good name; sorrowing for, and covering of their infirmities; freely acknowledging of their gifts and graces, defending their innocency; a ready receiving of a good report, and unwillingness to admit of an evil report, concerning them; discouraging talebearers, flatterers, and slanderers; love and care of our own good name, and defending it when need requires; keeping of lawful promises; studying and practicing of: Whatsoever things are true, honest, lovely, and of good report.

Question 145: What are the sins forbidden in the ninth commandment?

Answer: The sins forbidden in the ninth commandment are, all prejudicing the truth, and the good name of our neighbors, as well as our own, especially in public judicature; giving false evidence, suborning false witnesses, wittingly appearing and pleading for an evil cause, outfacing and overbearing the truth; passing unjust sentence, calling evil good, and good evil; rewarding the wicked according to the work of the righteous, and the righteous according to the work of the wicked; forgery, concealing the truth, undue silence in a just cause, and holding our peace when iniquity calls for either a reproof from ourselves, or complaint to others; speaking the truth unseasonably, or maliciously to a wrong end, or perverting it to a wrong meaning, or in doubtful and equivocal expressions, to the prejudice of truth or justice;speaking untruth, lying, slandering, backbiting, detracting, tale bearing, whispering, scoffing, reviling, rash, harsh, and partial censuring; misconstructing intentions, words, and actions; flattering, vainglorious boasting, thinking or speaking too highly or too meanly of ourselves or others; denying the gifts and graces of God; aggravating smaller faults;hiding, excusing, or extenuating of sins, when called to a free confession;unnecessary discovering of infirmities; raising false rumors, receiving and countenancing evil reports, and stopping our ears against just defense; evil suspicion; envying or grieving at the deserved credit of any, endeavoring or desiring to impair it, rejoicing in their disgrace and infamy; scornful contempt, fond admiration; breach of lawful promises; neglecting such things as are of good report, and practicing, or not avoiding ourselves, or not hindering: What we can in others, such things as procure an ill name.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Narratives are not to be taken as truth, particularly when we receive them from Scripture?

Who said that?
No one.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Telling the truth is not sin, but you can sin by telling the truth (what I would be doing by telling the intruder exactly where my family is so they would be in harms way)

And this is exactly the type of hypothetical sticky wickets that you guys like to bring up to justify lying.
What sin would you be committing if you spoke truthfully to the intruder?
Why do you need to answer an intruder at all?
Speak the truth or stay silent.

You don't need to lie if you trust God can work His purposes in any situation.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Anybody know what pastors of persecuted Christians counsel and teach their flock?
Do they encourage them to lie to their persecutors?
Do they tell them that righteous lying brings more glory to God than speaking the truth?

What do the persecutors think of Christians who have been found lying in order to keep themselves or someone else safe?

 

[webdog]

And this is exactly the type of hypothetical sticky wickets that you guys like to bring up to justify lying.
What sin would you be committing if you spoke truthfully to the intruder?
Why do you need to answer an intruder at all?
Speak the truth or stay silent.

You don't need to lie if you trust God can work His purposes in any situation.

So I should allow my family to perish? How ridiculous.

Why didn't Hagar just turn the spies in?

Why didn't Jonathan rat out David?

 

[Isaiah40:28]

So I should allow my family to perish? How ridiculous.

Why didn't Hagar just turn the spies in?

Why didn't Jonathan rat out David?

It's strange that you think that your righteous lies are what is necessary to save your family.
If God saves your family through your lying, He is gracious.
If you speak the truth or stay silent, cannot God also save you?

*Sidenote:
You mean Rahab, not Hagar.