Originally posted by Tazman:
ituttut,
You do understand what we are talking about here, don't you? OSAS. The errors of this doctrine not being based on sound biblical doctrine. Just to remind you, but I'm not sure if I follow your point, or better yet I don't even know what your point is. Maybe I'm slow. My wife can atest to that. Back to the point: God based rather a man lived or died on His devotion to a righteous life. Did God Change?
Taz, the subject we are on is “Did God change his mind”, and you are asking it again. OSAS is dovetailed in, and I thought I was answering what you asked. You’ve asked again “Did God Change”. I have answered God’s character does not change. Are you asking did God change from Not Always Saved to OSAS? No. God in His dispensation’s saves within His program to bring about His purpose. No one could be Always saved until Christ shed His blood. As this is the way we are saved, it was impossible for God to save any “Unconditionally” until after Damascus Road, for until then all had to make “blood sacrifices” to cover sins, and they had to endure until the end, and the Jew had to Repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins.
If this doesn’t answer your question, and you wish to continue talking, you are going to have to draw me a picture (Please make it a simple one).
On something else you keep bringing up for whatever reason, again I don't understand it's importance, but Paul bringing the Gospel to the Gentiles. If I'm not mistaken, Philip was recorded converting and preaching to Samaritans before Paul was converted (Philip in Samaria
4 Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went. 5Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Christ[a]there. Acts 8:6 When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said. 7 With shrieks, evil spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and cripples were healed. 8 So there was great joy in that city.)
See this is going to be longer than I thought. Samaritans are half-breed of Israel, and not considered Gentile for they have Jewish blood. Scripture shows Peter is the first to preach to a Gentile, for none had the authority to do so, for Israel was cut-off after the stoning of Steven.
All most all Christians think Paul was another earthly Apostle. Paul and the other Apostles did not agree. I bring this up (Paul the Apostle to the Gentile) when ever the opportunity presents itself, as no Gentile was preached at or to about salvation until after Christ from heaven spoke to Paul on Damascus Road (Acts 9), which was some few years after the Stoning of Steven. Not too long afterwards in Acts 10 we see Peter is the first Apostle to give a gospel (different from His usual). Peter would never have preached salvation to a Gentile unless Christ forced him into it.
Please read Acts 10 with understanding of verse 28, ”And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.”
Then please notice the gospel of Christ from heaven that Christ gives to Paul, Paul the Apostle to the Gentile, but has Peter administer it to the Gentile first, and this will attest to the Jews later that Paul truly is the Only heavenly appointed Apostle to the Gentile. The Gentile is not long to be considered “dogs” by Israel. Acts 10:42-45, * I inserted ”And he commanded us to preach unto the people (*the people is the nation Israel*) , and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.” This is the Christian gospel, and not the gospel of John the Baptist for the Jew of repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.
Peter and the other Jews were amazed, confused not fully understand how this could have happened. This was not supposed to happen. Peter didn’t know what else to do so Baptism took place on these Gentile’s. This is probably all new to you and it will take time to understand. As we go through Acts we see movement away from Israel to the Body of Christ, the Christian gospel of Christ Jesus, of believe on His name and we will be saved, Acts 16.
John the Baptist never preached to a heathen Gentile for their salvation; Jesus did not, nor Peter (Only one time), John or any other Apostle in the Pentecostal Jewish church (not as long as the Temple stood) – Matthew 15:22-38.
If I also remember correctly didn't the death of Stephen take place before Saul was converted?
Yes. Paul was there and was the instigator of Stephen’s death.
And after Stephens death the desciples scattered preaching the word to Gentiles also (Acts 11:19)
Paul is the one that made them scatter. When Paul was on his way to Damascus, he had papers in hand from the Sanhedrin to have killed or jailed those of the Pentecostal church. He was determined to wipeout these that wanted Jesus to be their King. He had ran everybody out of Jerusalem, and Judah, and Israel, (exception the Apostles hidden), and was going now into Gentile territory to persecuted those of the Apostolic Jewish church.
Now those who had been scattered by the persecution in connection with Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, telling the message only to Jews. 20Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. 21The Lord's hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.
Please look at Acts 11:1, ” And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God." The first Gentile had just been saved by Peter, and word got around, and this is probably somewhere around 3 or 4 years after Pentecost, and the stoning of Steven.
Help me to understand your point with Demascus?
