Did God "Change" With the Incarnation?

[jbh28]

Did God The Son have physical form in heaven before the Incarnation?

was Hhe both human and God before the Incarnation?

God the Son took on humanity forever at the Incarnation...

God now had 2 natures in Him...

Did change!

God did not change. The Bible says that God did not change. How hard is it for you to understand that simple point? I've quoted a few passages that say that God "changes not" yet you still want to insist that he does change?

So I'll repeat again.

God does not change. Let me repeat, God does not change. He doesn't change.

Malachi 3:6a "For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed."

See also
Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Isaiah 46:9-11; Ezekiel 24:14. James 1:17

 

[preachinjesus]

Did God The Son have physical form in heaven before the Incarnation?

No.

There are no Old Testament Christophanies either. The theological issues of a pre-incarnation incarnation are difficult to overcome.

was Hhe both human and God before the Incarnation?

No, prior to the incarnation Jesus had no physical, ontological form but was, like the other members of the Trinity, spirit.

God the Son took on humanity forever at the Incarnation...

Forever is a difficult term. I would say that Jesus had, until His return, taken on physical form. We cannot know if this is an everlasting form or not.

God now had 2 natures in Him...

Did change!

No, absolutely no. No no no. How in the good name of God can you come to this conclusion. No no no. :BangHead::BangHead:

The hypostatic union does not impact the essence or nature of the divine nature. There is no ontological change to God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit because of the incarnation.

How do you deal with the ontological separation of nature of the natures in the hypostatic union?

 

[JesusFan]

No.

There are no Old Testament Christophanies either. The theological issues of a pre-incarnation incarnation are difficult to overcome.



No, prior to the incarnation Jesus had no physical, ontological form but was, like the other members of the Trinity, spirit.



Forever is a difficult term. I would say that Jesus had, until His return, taken on physical form. We cannot know if this is an everlasting form or not.



No, absolutely no. No no no. How in the good name of God can you come to this conclusion. No no no. :BangHead::BangHead:

The hypostatic union does not impact the essence or nature of the divine nature. There is no ontological change to God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit because of the incarnation.

How do you deal with the ontological separation of nature of the natures in the hypostatic union?

Did God assume/take on a fully human nature in Christ or not?
IF He did, wasn't that God the Son becoming something brand new, never was before?

 

[seekingthetruth]

I don't see how that taking human form changed Jesus. He was 100% divine before, and He is 100% devine now. What is different?

I think sometimes we mere mortals try too hard to try to imagine what it would be like to be God, and second guess what God thinks or does. Our minds can only function with human logic, and that even not very well. So how in the world are you going to determine if God has changed? How do you make that judgement, especially when scripture says He never changes?

Ah, but alas, there are some who believe that not all scripture is true (which would make it a lie), so how would they know whether to believe that God never changes or not? As for me, I believe every word of the Word, so no, God absolutely never changes.

I have to say, this is one of the silliest threads i have ever read....well, maybe the "First Baptist Church of Jeruselum" thread was dumber.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

Did God assume/take on a fully human nature in Christ or not?
IF He did, wasn't that God the Son becoming something brand new, never was before?

Wait a second, if Jesus took on "human nature" then He would have been a sinner. He took on human form, but He still had His "Divine Nature", and human form did not change that.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

Some of you pastors help me out here. Does the Bible say anywhere that Jesus took on a "human nature", or just a "form of a man"?

John

 

[JesusFan]

Some of you pastors help me out here. Does the Bible say anywhere that Jesus took on a "human nature", or just a "form of a man"?

John

per the Bible AND the Creeds

Jesus was/is 100 % human/100 % God

2 natures seperate, not mixed, united always in one body and being!

TAHT is why its the mystery of the Incanation, God becoming human!

 

[seekingthetruth]

I am not trying to be argumentative, but i couldn't care less what any creed says.

And you have missed my point here. When Jesus became human, He didn't give up His Diety. He was God before He was man, he was God while He was man, and He is still God today....unchanged.

2 natures? Show me that scripture. Became man in form, yes, but if He was man in nature He would have been a sinner.

My savior was NOT a sinner!

This is all I have to say on this topic, but I eagerly await your next brainstorm/thread/question.

John

 

[jbh28]

Some of you pastors help me out here. Does the Bible say anywhere that Jesus took on a "human nature", or just a "form of a man"?

John

Jesus had human nature, just not tainted human nature. Jesus had two natures (this JesusFan has correct). Both a human and a divine nature. Philippians 2 says this. Nature is a list of characteristics. Jesus didn't have a sinful human nature. He is God and cannot sin. Being human doesn't make one a sinner in and of itself. Jesus made a perfect human. It's us that have sinned and thus all humans other than Jesus is sinful. Jesus wasn't created at the incarnation, only took on human flesh.

 

[preachinjesus]

Did God assume/take on a fully human nature in Christ or not?
IF He did, wasn't that God the Son becoming something brand new, never was before?

This is what drives us crazy about your posting. We put together informed posts and you simply ignore our points and pose additional, often misguided questions or points. This pattern of engagement is unhelpful.

To directly answer your questions (which a apparently mean my previous posts did nothing to add to the conversation :BangHead is this:

Go read up on the kenosis theory about the incarnation, formulate an opinion and then...come back and post something helpful.

 

[preachinjesus]

Some of you pastors help me out here. Does the Bible say anywhere that Jesus took on a "human nature", or just a "form of a man"?

I'd generally encourage someone to look at:

Matt 11:25-30; 17:5
John 1:1-18; 3:10-21; 8:19; 14:9
1 Cor 15:28
Philippians 2:5-11
Colossians 1:19; 2:9
Hebrews 1

these tend to be a good starting point biblically. :thumbs:

 

[asterisktom]

I would like to still revisit my original question. This is for those of you who recognize that God does not essentially change - and yet insist on a Christ returning with part human essence.

Would it not be an incredible and unscriptural change for God - speaking of Jesus now - to go from being pure spirit before the Incarnation to being now (after the Incarnation) God-Man?

Can the Son of eternity past be so essentially different from the Son of eternity future?

 

[DaChaser1]

I would like to still revisit my original question. This is for those of you who recognize that God does not essentially change - and yet insist on a Christ returning with part human essence.

Would it not be an incredible and unscriptural change for God - speaking of Jesus now - to go from being pure spirit before the Incarnation to being now (after the Incarnation) God-Man?

Can the Son of eternity past be so essentially different from the Son of eternity future?

the essential aspect/essense of God will forever remain the same...

Jesus is fully God, THAT aspect never changed, but HE did become a Man forever more...

So God stayed forever God, but now due to the Incarnation, will also now forever in the second peron of the Godhead be a Man!

 

[DaChaser1]

Wait a second, if Jesus took on "human nature" then He would have been a sinner. He took on human form, but He still had His "Divine Nature", and human form did not change that.

John

NO!
per the Bible, the HS conceived Him inMary, by passed sinful nature, so Jesus had sinless himan nature, like Adam had before the fall!

 

[DaChaser1]

God does not change. Let me repeat, God does not change. He doesn't change his mind. He doesn't change.

Malachi 3:6a "For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed."
Numbers 23:19 "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?"

See also
Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Isaiah 46:9-11; Ezekiel 24:14. James 1:17


The sky is blue..

So, what color is the sky?

um blue

jesus as God would NEVER change at all in His divine essense, had ALL of His God attrubutes forever same BUT did add to those his humanity, so he is now God/Man forever, so in JUST that aspect, had changed!

 

[asterisktom]

the essential aspect/essense of God will forever remain the same...

Jesus is fully God, THAT aspect never changed, but HE did become a Man forever more...

So God stayed forever God, but now due to the Incarnation, will also now forever in the second peron of the Godhead be a Man!

I'm sorry but that is such a stretch. You are erasing all meaning from the word "change".

Change:
verb (used with object)
1.
to make the form, nature, content, future course, etc., of (something) different from what it is or from what it would be if left alone: to change one's name; to change one's opinion; to change the course of history.
2.
to transform or convert (usually followed by into ): The witch changed the prince into a toad.

 

[DaChaser1]

I'm sorry but that is such a stretch. You are erasing all meaning from the word "change".

Change:
verb (used with object)
1.
to make the form, nature, content, future course, etc., of (something) different from what it is or from what it would be if left alone: to change one's name; to change one's opinion; to change the course of history.
2.
to transform or convert (usually followed by into ): The witch changed the prince into a toad.

God "added" the Humanity of Jesus unto Himself, and for the first 'time" in all history, God was now Man! Adding humanity nature to own divine One...Permanent change...

 

[percho]

I'm sorry but that is such a stretch. You are erasing all meaning from the word "change".

Change:
verb (used with object)
1.
to make the form, nature, content, future course, etc., of (something) different from what it is or from what it would be if left alone: to change one's name; to change one's opinion; to change the course of history.
2.
to transform or convert (usually followed by into ): The witch changed the prince into a toad.

I'll be the first to say we should not do that.

Remember I know no Greek. All I can do is Goggle.

From Matthew 1:20

γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν,
scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat1.pdf
for in her BEING-generated
Westcott and Hort GNT qbible.com/greek-new-testament/matthew/1.html#20
therefore in unto-it having-been-generated-unto,

What does this say God did and should we change it?

 

[Amy.G]

DaChaser1, are you Jesusfan? Your posts are identical.

Ah yes. Reading your profile(s) I see that you are. Why two identities?

 

[seekingthetruth]

NO!
per the Bible, the HS conceived Him inMary, by passed sinful nature, so Jesus had sinless himan nature, like Adam had before the fall!

Can you show scripture to support this?

John