Did God predict?

[Van]

In 1 Peter 1:11 several translations indicate God "predicted" Christ's sufferings. The idea of the translators apparently being God looked into future and told us the future which is known by God.

The other view of course is that God told us what would occur because God would cause it to occur. This is the biblical view.

The Greek word (promartyromai - G4303) is compound and refers to a factual testimony beforehand. Thus if a person said "I planned to rob him" that would be factual testimony beforehand.

When God tells us what will occur in the future, He is telling us what He will accomplish in the future, what He will cause to happen, such as the predetermined plan for Christ's suffering and death.

Too often unstudied believer's buy into "Crystal Ball Theology."

 

[Van]

Looking at the English translation choices on Biblegateway, I counted 16, including the ESV, NASB, NIV and WEB, that used predict. Another, similarly misleading, term is foretell or foretold which is used by several more translations.

A much better choice would be "declare beforehand."

For example God declares the end from the beginning. (Isaiah 46:10)

 

[Marooncat79]

God does not “predict” anything

God perfectly declares or decrees ALL that will come to pass

 

[Marooncat79]

1689 Baptist Confession Chapter 3: Of God's Decree - Commentary

 

[Deacon]

Looking at the English translation choices on Biblegateway, I counted 16, including the ESV, NASB, NIV and WEB, that used predict. Another, similarly misleading, term is foretell or foretold which is used by several more translations.

A much better choice would be "declare beforehand."

An English dictionary is a handy tool when studying the Bible.

PREDICT (transitive verb) - to declare or indicate in advance
From the Latin praedictus, (prae - pre ; dicare - to proclaim, dedicate
Miriam-Webster Dictionary 10th edition.

Various Lexicons

4626 προμαρτύρομαι (promartyromai): vb.; ≡ Str 4303; TDNT 4.510—LN 33.282 predict, formally, bear witness to beforehand (1Pe 1:11+)
James Swanson, Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) (Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997).

προμαρτύρομαι mid. dep. (PLond IV, 1356, 32 [710 a.d.]) to speak with solemn assurance about someth. that is to happen, bear witness to beforehand, predict τὶ someth. 1 Pt 1:11
William Arndt, Frederick W. Danker, et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 872.

προμαρτύρομαι promartyromai bear witness to beforehand
1 Pet 1:11, of Christ’s spirit, which predicted beforehand Christ’s suffering and glorification (πνεῦμα … προμαρτυρόμενον). This statement is unique in the NT; προμαρτύρομαι occurs neither in the LXX nor in classical Greek.
Horst Robert Balz and Gerhard Schneider, Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1990–), 158.

Rob

 

[Van]

An English dictionary is a handy tool when studying the Bible.

PREDICT (transitive verb) - to declare or indicate in advance
From the Latin praedictus, (prae - pre ; dicare - to proclaim, dedicate
Miriam-Webster Dictionary 10th edition.

Various Lexicons

4626 προμαρτύρομαι (promartyromai): vb.; ≡ Str 4303; TDNT 4.510—LN 33.282 predict, formally, bear witness to beforehand (1Pe 1:11+)
James Swanson, Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) (Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997).

προμαρτύρομαι mid. dep. (PLond IV, 1356, 32 [710 a.d.]) to speak with solemn assurance about someth. that is to happen, bear witness to beforehand, predict τὶ someth. 1 Pt 1:11
William Arndt, Frederick W. Danker, et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 872.

προμαρτύρομαι promartyromai bear witness to beforehand
1 Pet 1:11, of Christ’s spirit, which predicted beforehand Christ’s suffering and glorification (πνεῦμα … προμαρτυρόμενον). This statement is unique in the NT; προμαρτύρομαι occurs neither in the LXX nor in classical Greek.
Horst Robert Balz and Gerhard Schneider, Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1990–), 158.

Rob

Not sure what the purpose of your post was. Is it that you are unfamiliar with "Crystal Ball Theology?" Or cannot grasp the difference between predicting and declaring?

Let me try this: To predict is to claim knowledge of the future, but to declare you will cause something to occur is to claim omnipotence.

"He hath not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future"​

 

[canadyjd]

In 1 Peter 1:11 several translations indicate God "predicted" Christ's sufferings. The idea of the translators apparently being God looked into future and told us the future which is known by God.

The other view of course is that God told us what would occur because God would cause it to occur. This is the biblical view.

The Greek word (promartyromai - G4303) is compound and refers to a factual testimony beforehand. Thus if a person said "I planned to rob him" that would be factual testimony beforehand.

When God tells us what will occur in the future, He is telling us what He will accomplish in the future, what He will cause to happen, such as the predetermined plan for Christ's suffering and death.

Too often unstudied believer's buy into "Crystal Ball Theology."

Exactly how does this view reconcile (or can it be reconciled) with the view God looked into the future, saw who would believe in Christ for salvation, and then “elected” or chose them based on that information?

Peace to you

 

[Deacon]

True, my prediction of the future can be faulty,
but Gods predictions of the future carry his full authority,
his Word is trustworthy and sure.

No, I’ve never heard of “Crystal Ball Theology”.

But you are making up your own definition in order to disagree with a translation.
(Keep translations as simple as possible)

To predict is to claim knowledge of the future…

Simply find a dictionary that supports your limited definition,

TO ‘PREDICT’ SIMPLY MEANS ‘TO DECLARE BEFOREHAND’

1 Peter 1:10 mentions the ‘prophets who prophesied’ were listening to the Spirit of Christ within them.
What this Spirit PREDICTED, the prophets foretold.

It can’t get much simpler.


Rob

 

[Van]

Exactly how does this view reconcile (or can it be reconciled) with the view God looked into the future, saw who would believe in Christ for salvation, and then “elected” or chose them based on that information?

Peace to you

It does not as that view is unbiblical "Crystal Ball Theology."

If you have studied say Psalms 14, you know that God looked down upon people to see if there were any righteous. Thus your view requires the fiction that this verse is a mistake. Not the road to understanding.

I present true easily verified from scripture.

 

[Van]

True, my prediction of the future can be faulty,
but Gods predictions of the future carry his full authority,
his Word is trustworthy and sure.

No, I’ve never heard of “Crystal Ball Theology”.

But you are making up your own definition in order to disagree with a translation.
(Keep translations as simple as possible)

Simply find a dictionary that supports your limited definition,

TO ‘PREDICT’ SIMPLY MEANS ‘TO DECLARE BEFOREHAND’

1 Peter 1:10 mentions the ‘prophets who prophesied’ were listening to the Spirit of Christ within them.
What this Spirit PREDICTED, the prophets foretold.

It can’t get much simpler.

Rob

Sorry Sir but God does not make predictions. He declares what He will accomplish and no plan of God can be thwarted.

Your MW citation in post #5 agreed with the view I presented, not with your unstated view.

If you use a word that has two different meanings, that hinders understanding. So to declare beforehand is according to the dictionary (lexicon) for G4303. As far as my own definition, ask yourself why the KJV uses it?

Let me try this: To predict is to claim knowledge of the future, but to declare you will cause something to occur is to claim omnipotence.

"He hath not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future"

 

[canadyjd]

It does not as that view is unbiblical "Crystal Ball Theology."

If you have studied say Psalms 14, you know that God looked down upon people to see if there were any righteous. Thus your view requires the fiction that this verse is a mistake. Not the road to understanding.

I present true easily verified from scripture.

God already knows everything. He didn’t have to “look down upon people” to learn any new info.

Many scripture show God is condescending to us; to speak in a way we can understand. The whole “God looked down upon people” is an example.

peace to you

 

[Van]

God already knows everything. He didn’t have to “look down upon people” to learn any new info.

Many scripture show God is condescending to us; to speak in a way we can understand. The whole “God looked down upon people” is an example.

peace to you

LOL, God who knows everything did look down to see if....

Your effort to claim God's word does not mean what it says is condescending toward those who love God.

 

[Van]

God does not “predict” anything

God perfectly declares or decrees ALL that will come to pass

Folks, note the fiction posters love to agree with their birds of a feather. Did you see a verse or passage cited to support the fiction? Neither did I. God's word contains the declarations of God we can cite and trust.

 

[canadyjd]

LOL, God who knows everything did look down to see if....

Your effort to claim God's word does not mean what it says is condescending toward those who love God.

When God asked Adam “did you eat of the tree…?” was God ignorant of whether Adam had eaten the fruit? Of course not.

God never asked questions to gain information.

God is the only unique person. There is nothing that can be compared to Him, so he uses language that we can understand. Scholars call it anthropomorphism. He is said to be the Fsther. He has hands, eyes etc.

But God is “Spirit”. We don’t know if “Spirits” even have hands or eyes.

If I were to describe my uncle to you I would use language you would understand. Height, weight, color of hair, job etc. All of those things you can relate to. You have references in your own life to help you paint a picture in your mind.

God has nothing and no one to compare Himself to, so He uses language we can understand. He condescends to us.

peace to you

 

[37818]

Deliberate limited omniscience, Genesis 22:12, ". . . for now I know that thou fearest God, . . ." Some Trinitarians choke on this. [John 1:18, Mark 13:32, Acts of the Apostles 1:6-7.]

 

[Van]

When God asked Adam “did you eat of the tree…?” was God ignorant of whether Adam had eaten the fruit? Of course not.

God never asked questions to gain information.

God is the only unique person. There is nothing that can be compared to Him, so he uses language that we can understand. Scholars call it anthropomorphism. He is said to be the Fsther. He has hands, eyes etc.

But God is “Spirit”. We don’t know if “Spirits” even have hands or eyes.

If I were to describe my uncle to you I would use language you would understand. Height, weight, color of hair, job etc. All of those things you can relate to. You have references in your own life to help you paint a picture in your mind.

God has nothing and no one to compare Himself to, so He uses language we can understand. He condescends to us.

peace to you

More of the same effort to deny the very words of God. God looked down to see something. Game set and match.
God did say He learned from the response of man, recall "now I know?"

Saying God is unique is non-germane deflection, as His word is true.

Just because God uses figurative language, does not justify ignoring other passages as if figurative.

Pay no attention to those who claim God's word can be nullified, or those who make God's word to no effect by the traditions of men.

 

[Marooncat79]

Folks, note the fiction posters love to agree with their birds of a feather. Did you see a verse or passage cited to support the fiction? Neither did I. God's word contains the declarations of God we can cite and trust.

Yeah Van, I only posted from the 1689 to prove my point

 

[Van]

Yeah Van, I only posted from the 1689 to prove my point

LOL, your link supported my view!!!

 

[Van]

Was Christ put to death because God "predicted" it, or was it by the predetermined plan God had declared beforehand? (Isaiah 53:1-5 and Acts of the Apostles 2:23)

Peter 1:11
seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He had declared beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

 

[canadyjd]

Deliberate limited omniscience, Genesis 22:12, ". . . for now I know that thou fearest God, . . ." Some Trinitarians choke on this. [John 1:18, Mark 13:32, Acts of the Apostles 1:6-7.]

It is an Angel in Gen 22:12 that says “now I know that thou fearest God”, not God Himself.

peace to you