Did He Really Know You?

[ivdavid]

It sounds to me like foreknowledge and foreordination are being confounded, no?
Maybe I'm missing what you're saying. Are you saying foreknowledge = foreordination ?

I agree it can get blurred. And as debate contexts go, yes, I'm meaning foreordination here as determined by foreknowledge but not equated as the same.

1. I can myself ordain my child to go out and play at the park tomorrow and bring it to pass then without fail. I really am not dependent on considering what he himself would do tomorrow when I've purposed this in myself today.
OR
2. I could foreknow that my child has decided to go out and play at the park tomorrow and I permit it to pass tomorrow without fail. In a sense, I've ordained my child's freewill today by not stopping it to come to pass, though I have the power to do so.

Calvinism pushes forth the former at all times, while Arminianism is fine accepting the latter. Both can be effectually termed as God ordaining all things before they come to pass.

 

[George Antonios]

I agree it can get blurred. And as debate contexts go, yes, I'm meaning foreordination here as determined by foreknowledge but not equated as the same.

1. I can myself ordain my child to go out and play at the park tomorrow and bring it to pass then without fail. I really am not dependent on considering what he himself would do tomorrow when I've purposed this in myself today.
OR
2. I could foreknow that my child has decided to go out and play at the park tomorrow and I permit it to pass tomorrow without fail. In a sense, I've ordained my child's freewill today by not stopping it to come to pass, though I have the power to do so.

Calvinism pushes forth the former at all times, while Arminianism is fine accepting the latter. Both can be effectually termed as God ordaining all things before they come to pass.

Well #2 is definitely the Biblical view although the use of the term "foreordination" here is a little ambiguous. That's why I prefer using Bible words in their Biblical rather than their philosophical context.
Anyway, thanks for clearing up your point, I get you now

 

[ivdavid]

That's why I prefer using Bible words in their Biblical rather than their philosophical context.

Not always so easy, depending on the translation you use.
This is in KJV,
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Ambiguous usage to actually mean foreknown, right?

I also need to correct myself in saying "calvinism seems to push forth the former at all times" because I've found many calvinists do allow for #2 too and only say #1 mustn't be ruled out completely as in the Eph 2:10 usage. Of course, there are those who have argued that none of man's self-determinism is ever considered by God - I too disagree with that.