Did I sin or walk in holiness regarding alcohol

[Aaron]

How far can this be taken? What if I am OFFENDED with your CEV and The Message bible translations? Does this mean you need to toss all copies to not offend me?

With all genuine matters of conscience, it can be taken as far as Paul took it. Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

You may be worried about the implications considering your pet activities, but I will only discuss those things in the Scriptures, and the Scriptures address alcoholic beverages specifically.

 

[convicted1]

I thought one oz. of liquor, 6 oz. of wine and 12 oz. of beer were all considered one drink, and not 4 oz. of wine, Sister Ann....

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness and peace in the Holy Ghost. If the Gospel is your focus, nothing compels one to drink. No one will be won by another's imbibing.

There is great advantaged in avoiding the controversy, though, and in abstaining out of love for the weaker brothers.

You are an alcoholic aren't you?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well that would be with those that are first brothers and at the party only two (both charismatic) and one had a very loose view on alcohol taught at his church that to best relate to the world one needs to drink and build bridges. This is a common view in the Christian and Missionary Alliance. Yet the other charismatic personally did not drink but was not offended nor tempted to drink so in this case perhaps drinking in front of unbelievers was okay but in a way I felt bad because I only wanted to drink in private.

I felt a little buzz which went away after I ate food and drank water but my rational was fine. I made it clear to some unbelievers that I did not agree with IFB nor teetotalist on their view on alcohol. Some unbelievers think all Christians are against alcohol probably because many equate Catholics with Christians and I even said to one that Catholics are bad news.

You told them that Catholics are "bad news" ....and yet you preach the gospel!?!?

 

[annsni]

I thought one oz. of liquor, 6 oz. of wine and 12 oz. of beer were all considered one drink, and not 4 oz. of wine, Sister Ann....

You may be right......

 

[convicted1]

You may be right......

Maybe you drink "stiffer" wine than the others.....:laugh:

 

[Aaron]

You are an alcoholic aren't you?

Nope. You wanna talk about the Scriptures?

 

[JamesL]

I thought one oz. of liquor, 6 oz. of wine and 12 oz. of beer were all considered one drink, and not 4 oz. of wine, Sister Ann....

It's based on comparing the percentage of alcohol.

It's been a long time since I was an expert, but it used to be that some beer was 5% and some beer was 3.2% (such as in Kansas)

I've seen wine as low as 13% and as high as 20%

With hard liquor, the proof is double the alcohol content. I think some schnapps are only 40 proof (20%), whiskey can range from 60-120 proof, and you can fuel a car with grain alcohol, which is 190 proof or so.

So really, those comparisons are just round about

 

[InTheLight]

Evan6589, I think you should give up drinking. You obviously don't know much about it.

 

[evangelist6589]

Evan6589, I think you should give up drinking. You obviously don't know much about it.

You need to do it first.

 

[InTheLight]

You need to do it first.

I need to do what first? Quit drinking, or learn about it?

 

[Thousand Hills]

Big family event and my wife could not make it out this time. My family knows my position on alcohol and that being drunk is sin. I said I would not buy nor support any public drinking of alcohol so I would not be a stumbling block nor lead people to temptation. However I could drink a beverage in private just as long as I did not sin and get drunk.

There are people in my family that are charismatic and hold a social evangelism view that to best relate to the world is to build friendships and alcohol is one way. There are drinks at the party that would get anyone drunk easily such as wines and coors. However a family member bought me some mikes lemonade and I agreed to drink it as long as I also drank water and ate food for I would not get drunk. A good position? I will walk in holiness but I won't be a stumbling block.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, or beat you up (we all know about your critics and how they multiply like rabbits- I'm trying to be a friend), but you put this out there and I'm giving my honest opinion. I would be less concerned about what and how much you do or don't drink and its effect on your testimony, and be more concerned about your marriage and the importance of your relationship with your wife as it relates to your testimony. You can be right on so many other things, but just from my perspective (based on everything you have posted here) this is one area you really need to focus on.

 

[JonC]

I don’t know…for me, abstaining in public or private functions but drinking at home may make me feel hypocritical – kinda like leading “two lives,” one for appearances and one private. If it is such an issue, perhaps it may be better simply to abstain. I have never been around people who were genuinely offended simply because I declined a beer...or a hard lemonade...(although I have been around several who would have been offended if I had ordered one).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I don’t know…for me, abstaining in public or private functions but drinking at home may make me feel hypocritical – kinda like leading “two lives,” one for appearances and one private. If it is such an issue, perhaps it may be better simply to abstain. I have never been around people who were genuinely offended simply because I declined a beer...or a hard lemonade...(although I have been around several who would have been offended if I had ordered one).

Thats their choice......if they cant handle it then they should stop drinking......not you.

Do you eat in front of a fat person.....do you eat meat in front of a vegan and do you buy things in front of a poor person? This is just a Baloney conversation honestly.

 

[InTheLight]

Thats their choice......if they cant handle it then they should stop drinking......not you.

Do you eat in front of a fat person.....do you eat meat in front of a vegan and do you buy things in front of a poor person? This is just a Baloney conversation honestly.

Pretty much the way I see it as well.

 

[JonC]

Thats their choice......if they cant handle it then they should stop drinking......not you.

Do you eat in front of a fat person.....do you eat meat in front of a vegan and do you buy things in front of a poor person? This is just a Baloney conversation honestly.

I agree. If 1 Corinthians 8 was extracted from the Bible or changed to read “enjoy your liberty and ignore the weakness of your brother” it would be a baloney conversation. Oh, wait, there are other passages about putting your brethren above yourself…not only your desires but your needs…so never mind. Biblical revision would need to be more extensive. But once it is done this conversation would honestly be baloney. :smilewinkgrin:

Some people take it too far, others not far enough.

 

[InTheLight]

I agree. If 1 Corinthians 8 was extracted from the Bible or changed to read “enjoy your liberty and ignore the weakness of your brother” it would be a baloney conversation. Oh, wait, there are other passages about putting your brethren above yourself…not only your desires but your needs…so never mind. Biblical revision would need to be more extensive. But once it is done this conversation would honestly be baloney. :smilewinkgrin:

Some people take it too far, others not far enough.

The key verse from 1 Cor. 8:
1 Cor 8:13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.

OK, if someone who is a teetotaler sees another Christian having a beer, and they figure, hey, it's OK if they have a beer as well, is that a sin? No. Now if this person turns into alcoholic, you would have a point.

How far does this extend? If a Christian woman believes it's wrong to wear pants, should all her Christian women friends who think otherwise, then abstain from wearing pants?

If a Christian thinks it's wrong to work on Sundays should his Christian friends with jobs that require them to work on Sundays quit their jobs?

 

[JamesL]

1Cor 8 has a particular context - idols. The weaker brother is not one who is shackled by a frivolous restriction, not at all.

Paul is saying that idols are nothing, so the meat eaten is simply food. But this is a knowledge of liberty. Now, if a weaker brother sees you eat of this food because you know it's just food, he may be enticed to pay homage to the idol through eating the meat.

It has nothing to do with enticing a teetotaler to have a drink, or enticing an Amish man to use a power saw.

I think modern day equivalents would be:

You get a tribal tattoo because you have the liberty to do so. But a weaker brother might see it and be enticed to get one in honor of a godless religion

Or you might use yoga for physical therapy, and a weaker brother might be enticed to engage in transcendental meditation.

Or you might practice karate for self defense, and a weaker brother might be enticed to engage in Zen Buddhism.

Nothing in 1Cor 8 is not about an activity, but what the activity represents - an idol. If your liberty causes a brother to stumble into the arms of a false god, you should abstain.

If it's just engagement in an activity, like dancing or playing cards, that brother needs to accept that his limitation does not bind you. But even then, your liberty should not be the cause of a weaker brother to stumble into judgmentalism. Paul addressed this issue in Romans 14

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I agree. If 1 Corinthians 8 was extracted from the Bible or changed to read “enjoy your liberty and ignore the weakness of your brother” it would be a baloney conversation. Oh, wait, there are other passages about putting your brethren above yourself…not only your desires but your needs…so never mind. Biblical revision would need to be more extensive. But once it is done this conversation would honestly be baloney. :smilewinkgrin:

Some people take it too far, others not far enough.

You know...... if you were to pull a guy in who you knew was a alchie into a bar and bought him a beer knowing full well he has a problem then you would be consciously sinning ....that's a creep! But if you were to have a beer after work with a meal simply cause you enjoy it, then hows that a sin? You know this casual commentary about drinking alcohol is truly somebodies misguided and obsessed way of just imposing abstinence and it doesn't fly with me. I have and still go into the bars and pubs in order to help these drunks and I have pulled them outa jails and outa bars and places where they are full of puke and piss, gone to AA meetings with them, talked to them about God, talked to them about their family's ....tried to be there for them so I don't want to hear this crap. The true Christian is there for the weak. Actively helping them ....not wineing about drinking a Tom's (wossie drink in the 1st place) Hard Lemonade in front of people.

 

[JonC]

The principle, IMHO, is loving your brother. The issue is placing what may be a liberty over the welfare of a brother. “Causing a brother to stumble” is, IMHO, over exaggerated. But drinking because I want to - with the attitude my stumbling brother needs to get over - it is not an example of Christian love. It is in stark opposite of the Christian life.

The OP is nothing more than John trying to justify his drinking. What is evident of Christ’s love in the OP’s insistence in drinking? He has stated that his brethren at the local church sees it as a sin. He has stated that his wife views it as a sin. Yet for what reason does he continue to drink? He likes the taste. Give me a break. I see no sin in having a drink, but I do see a sin in placing one’s own desire for a drink over the conscience of my own wife.