Did Jesus Drink Alcoholic Beverages?

[xdisciplex]

In my house meeting there is a christian woman which used to be an alcoholic in the past and she said that she never wanted to drink anymore but what she missed was not being able to drink vine at the holy communion and then God told her that she can drink vine again and last time at the end of the house meeting she also drank some beer and it didn't seem to harm her. I guess if this really was from God then it's okay.
But I also cannot make general statements about alcohol. It can cause a lot of destruction, this is for sure.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Boy was that woman deceived.

 

[xdisciplex]

Deceived?
But this happened during a vacation with her church. Her own pastor was the one who had the impression that there was somebody among the people who would like to drink from the vine and that it's okay. But back then the woman did not dare to drink and then later on she tried it and she said it was okay for her.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

God is not going to tell one who has been delivered from alcohol to pick up the very substance that had her on the road to hell before.

 

[Claudia_T]

well maybe the pastor needs to stop going by impressions and go by the Word of God instead... maybe?

Impressions can be deceiving

 

[xdisciplex]

Hmmmm...
actually it really is a bit strange but what if God only wanted her to grant her wish of being able to drink from the vine at the holy communion?
This is a charismatic church, maybe these impressions are also wrong but wouldn't God protect his people?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

XdiscipleX,

Look at the story of Job. Job was a righteous man who eschewed evil. Yet God allowed the hedge to be taken down so satan could unleash on Job many miseries.

God allows people to be tempted. He does not tempt, but He does allow tempting. Some give in to that temptation.

 

[Claudia_T]

Amen to that, Standing

Satan came even to Jesus in the wilderness pretending to be an angel... and he tempted Jesus..


xdisciplex:
Not all Ministers are from God, either...

2Cor:11:
13: For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15: Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[xdisciplex]

Great and what shall I do now?
I mean if you cannot even trust your pastor anymore then you can as well stay away from church completely. Not that I go there regularly but from time to time I go there. But to be honest these charismatic church are not my thing, I cannot relate to most of the stuff they do. Often they only seem weird to me like fanatics and then it's like I see everything with the eyes of an unbeliever and ask myself what kind of impression such a person must get when she sees this.

 

[Jim1999]

In my role as minister, I would never touch alcohol, but I know some parishioners who did imbibe the beverage. I never preached against drinking any beverage, but I sure did preach against the evils of abusive alcohol consumption. See the difference?

Personally, I am ambivalent about drinking wine, beer or any alcoholic beverage. A shot of brandy once a day is good for your system, so I am told. I must, as minister, however, avoid the very appearance of evil lest I lead a brother or sister down a rough road.

Did Jesus drink alcoholic wine? As I said a long ways back in this thread, I can't conceive of the Lord using a miracle to turn water into alcoholic wine at a drunken wedding party. That is my perception. Let every one decide for himself what that particular scripture means.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Claudia_T]

Jim,


You know what? You sound very reasonable to me, putting it that way.

Maybe I am wrong to be so harsh about it.

I guess it has lots to do with the fact that I myself got caught up with drinking and drugs at such an early age when I ran away from home at age 14. I was unfortunate enough to get picked up by a carload of army soldiers from the military base when I was literally running away from home and they were into doing lots of drugs. I did that for a long time... plus drinking.

And so maybe I just kind of see the whole thing through those lens and I just want to protect people from what I went through.

But probably most people wouldnt fall so deeply into it as I did.

You just sound so reasonable and calm while I must sound like Im hyperventilating over here about it.


Claudia

 

[xdisciplex]

Yes, it's indeed hard to imagine that Jesus' first miracle was to create alcoholic wine at a drunken wedding party. Somehow this wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Claudia_T]

double post

 

[Claudia_T]

Come to think of it thats probably why I love the commandments so much, since for so long I was just out there in the world with no boundaries at all... and I experienced so much pain that comes from the results of sin.

Maybe thats why I try so hard to convince others about it... but I dont realize I am being too harsh about it.

...maybe... not sure

 

[Jim1999]

The pendulum often swings to each extreme. It is effective, however, when it swings in balance.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Smoky]

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

It seems plain to me that it says: John came not eating or drinking (another place the bible says he ate locusts and wild honey). But he wasn't eating with others like Jesus was. All they could find to blame on John was that he must have a devil. (which of course he didn't).

Tam, John the Baptist nor Jesus neither one were drinking alcoholic wine! John was a under the "nazrite" vow and was forbiden to eat any fruit of the grape at all including things like grape juice and raisins. He came neither "eating bread" or drinking "grape juice" (greek Oinos in context). Certain hypocrites thought that because Jesus was in fact eating bread and drinking "oinos" that he was drinking the alcoholic kind, and that he was eating too much (glutony). It's not a sin to drink grape juice or eat bread in moderation as long as you don't overinduldge. However, if what you are drinking is something the Bible warns against and tells us to stay away from, like alcoholic wine, then it's a sin to take any at all. Just like it is a sin not to do any other forbidden thing. It's imposible to steel or commit adultry in modration. Smoky

 

[Charles Meadows]

They called Jesus a winebibber because He drank wine! Why else would anyone say such a thing? Like many have said here everyone back then (except those who took vows otherwise) drank wine because it was the only beverage that would not spoil!

Your argument with "oinos" only shows that it WAS wine that Jesus drank.

If Jesus had (which He did not) prohibited all drinking why is the Bible not clear on this, warning against drunkenness but not minimal alcohol consumption?

Today things are different. There is no reason any of us needs to drink wine. Our milk is pasteurized and our water purified. Pop and juice abound! I avoid ALL alcohol.

But.. We must NOT try to make arguments in which the perceived end justifies the means. The argument that Jesus drank only nonalcoholic grape juice teaches other believers that it is OK to be deceitful in our exegesis as long as we get the desired outcome!!!!!

 

[DeeJay]

If you look on the outside of a grape you will see a white powder. This powder is yeast or leaven. As soon as you crush a grape the yeast mixes with the suger in the juice and the process of fermentation begins. Now you have approx. 4 or 5 days before the alochol content becomes enough to notice. Now when the grape juice ferments to around %14 give or take a percent the alcohol content kills the yeast or leven. This is why wine will only naturaly ferment to around %14.

So what is my point. Fresh grape juice contains yeast or leven wine does not.

My question to you is during the passover feast did Jesus and the deciples drink fermented wine or did they drink fresh grape juice containing leaven?

Nobody has yet answerd my question. How could fresh grape juice be drunk during the pasover knowing fresh grape juice contains leaven?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

How could Jesus drink fermented wine when it was forbidden for kings to drink fermented beverage?

Jesus was a king even if he was not recognized as one.

He did not drink fermented drink, nor did he give it to anyone.

 

[DeeJay]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
How could Jesus drink fermented wine when it was forbidden for kings to drink fermented beverage?

Jesus was a king even if he was not recognized as one.

He did not drink fermented drink, nor did he give it to anyone.

SFiC

You ignore my question. Did Jesus drink, or give a drink to his deciples, containing leaven during passover? Did he use a drink containing leaven to reprisent his blood?