Did Jesus Drink Alcoholic Beverages?

[Living_stone]

its nice to see other christians trying to justify drinking alcohol by saying that so many other things can be toxic. you're doing a great job of justifying yourself there.

what's your conscience saying?

That you're arrogant and judging us in matters you are not qualified to judge.

since alcohol is a toxin - at any dosage.
are we allowed to intoxicate our bodies?

Alcohol is not a toxin by all definitions of the word - and those are very modern definitions not more than half a century old. Take off your rose-colored 21st century glasses and look at the matter from a truely biblical perspective. The Jews drank wine. Period. Jesus drank wine. Period. Trying to push your prohibitionistic mentality and justifying it by contorting scriptures beyond their actual meanings is wrong.

Define toxin.

 

[Living_stone]

Proverbs 31:5-6 -- Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter. Let him drink and forget his poverty And remember his trouble no more.

 

[webdog]

"They that tarry long at the wine" - drunkeness

"they that go to seek mixed wine" - addiction

"Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright." -= craving alcohol: addiction
(BTW, this phrase says nothing about white wine, beer, hard liquor, etc.)

"At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. 34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. 35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake?" - drunkeness (if you have ever been drunk, this text describes it perfectly)

"I will seek it yet again" - addiction

See the pattern forming?

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by gekko:
i never said it was a matter of theological offense to me or others... did i?

You and at least one other person are acting quite offended at the prospect of others seeing the ingestion of alcohol, moderately, as not sinful. You keep bringing up "toxins," and the other poster insists we are making "his Jesus" into something He is not.

These are marks of someone who is offended, and since said offense is bracketed in theology, it is a theological offense.

So... why?

 

[gekko]

"That you're arrogant and judging us in matters you are not qualified to judge."
first of all - im not judging anybody - but only stating my own opinion on the matter.

im not offended in one bit tragic. i dont see how you can get that from what im saying...

its nice - webdog - how you can go into specifics of what the scripture is not saying - and therefore justifying yourself...

i do the same - im not judging. im just learning - that's all.

 

[webdog]

its nice - webdog - how you can go into specifics of what the scripture is not saying - and therefore justifying yourself...

i do the same - im not judging. im just learning - that's all.

You accuse me of eisegeting...and then say you are not "judging"?

I did no such thing, but broke down each of your "proof texts" to show you the nature behind what it you are trying to get at (or should I say "reach for")

BTW, since you accuse me of getting into specifics of what Scripture is "not saying", you still have not told me what Scripture "is saying" from Deuteronomy and Isaiah. Why is that?

 

[gekko]

hehehe

 

[gekko]

what i meant was when you said "(BTW, this phrase says nothing about white wine, beer, hard liquor, etc.)" scripture says nothing about that... i don't know.

im still iffy about this subject. i mean. the world looks at alcohol for one reason: to get drunk. you guys say that we are allowed to use alcohol, but in moderation. i dont fully understand what the scripture says about it yet. so im not convinced to your side of the sitch. what i think is that if the world thinks to use it to get drunk: and if the world sees us drinking - then they think we're going to get drunk. (im being stereotypical here). so personally i won't drink - heck wine tastes good - but it sure gave me a buzz - and that was the first and last glass i had. (that's another story - to me - i fell) - but to you guys i didn't - but it sure altered my thinking... (i hate the smell of beer anyways).

so for me - i think its ultimately wrong. you guys dont think so. just to have a little bit.

who knows their own limits as to when they do/don't get drunk? i sure don't - and i dont intend to find out - because that is just a dangerous situation. no?

i dont believe in testing where the drawn line is. because if you step over that line without knowing it. your messed. imho.

you kinda get what im saying?

 

[gekko]

if it seems at all that i am judging any of you - i apologize. please forgive me for that.

i dont like judging fellow christians without scripture to support it.

God bless

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by gekko:
what i meant was when you said "(BTW, this phrase says nothing about white wine, beer, hard liquor, etc.)" scripture says nothing about that... i don't know.

im still iffy about this subject. i mean. the world looks at alcohol for one reason: to get drunk. you guys say that we are allowed to use alcohol, but in moderation. i dont fully understand what the scripture says about it yet. so im not convinced to your side of the sitch. what i think is that if the world thinks to use it to get drunk: and if the world sees us drinking - then they think we're going to get drunk. (im being stereotypical here). so personally i won't drink - heck wine tastes good - but it sure gave me a buzz - and that was the first and last glass i had. (that's another story - to me - i fell) - but to you guys i didn't - but it sure altered my thinking... (i hate the smell of beer anyways).

so for me - i think its ultimately wrong. you guys dont think so. just to have a little bit.

who knows their own limits as to when they do/don't get drunk? i sure don't - and i dont intend to find out - because that is just a dangerous situation. no?

i dont believe in testing where the drawn line is. because if you step over that line without knowing it. your messed. imho.

you kinda get what im saying?

I can definitely respect this position and have no problem with anything in this post.

It is when Christians abuse scripture to defend the pet theologies of their culture that I have a problem with it.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gekko:
what i meant was when you said "(BTW, this phrase says nothing about white wine, beer, hard liquor, etc.)" scripture says nothing about that... i don't know.

im still iffy about this subject. i mean. the world looks at alcohol for one reason: to get drunk. you guys say that we are allowed to use alcohol, but in moderation. i dont fully understand what the scripture says about it yet. so im not convinced to your side of the sitch. what i think is that if the world thinks to use it to get drunk: and if the world sees us drinking - then they think we're going to get drunk. (im being stereotypical here). so personally i won't drink - heck wine tastes good - but it sure gave me a buzz - and that was the first and last glass i had. (that's another story - to me - i fell) - but to you guys i didn't - but it sure altered my thinking... (i hate the smell of beer anyways).

so for me - i think its ultimately wrong. you guys dont think so. just to have a little bit.

who knows their own limits as to when they do/don't get drunk? i sure don't - and i dont intend to find out - because that is just a dangerous situation. no?

i dont believe in testing where the drawn line is. because if you step over that line without knowing it. your messed. imho.

you kinda get what im saying?

I can definitely respect this position and have no problem with anything in this post.

It is when Christians abuse scripture to defend the pet theologies of their culture that I have a problem with it. </font>[/QUOTE]I second that

 

[Jacob Dahlen]

yes

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by webdog:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gekko:
what i meant was when you said "(BTW, this phrase says nothing about white wine, beer, hard liquor, etc.)" scripture says nothing about that... i don't know.

im still iffy about this subject. i mean. the world looks at alcohol for one reason: to get drunk. you guys say that we are allowed to use alcohol, but in moderation. i dont fully understand what the scripture says about it yet. so im not convinced to your side of the sitch. what i think is that if the world thinks to use it to get drunk: and if the world sees us drinking - then they think we're going to get drunk. (im being stereotypical here). so personally i won't drink - heck wine tastes good - but it sure gave me a buzz - and that was the first and last glass i had. (that's another story - to me - i fell) - but to you guys i didn't - but it sure altered my thinking... (i hate the smell of beer anyways).

so for me - i think its ultimately wrong. you guys dont think so. just to have a little bit.

who knows their own limits as to when they do/don't get drunk? i sure don't - and i dont intend to find out - because that is just a dangerous situation. no?

i dont believe in testing where the drawn line is. because if you step over that line without knowing it. your messed. imho.

you kinda get what im saying?

I can definitely respect this position and have no problem with anything in this post.

It is when Christians abuse scripture to defend the pet theologies of their culture that I have a problem with it. </font>[/QUOTE]I second that

</font>[/QUOTE]I third it.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Originally posted by tragic_pizza:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by FriendofSpurgeon:
I can say that too -- PC(A) and we don't either. We even have wine at our small group Bible Studies.

This is news. On my end of the Presbyterian spectrum, we think of you guys as Baptist-lite.



I learn something new, interesting, and helpful every day. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, I know. And we think you guys are flaming liberals. In truth, we are probably a whole lot closer than we think. I even have two PCA pastor friends that went to Princeton Seminary (shhh -- don't tell anyone). Also, it probably depends on the part of the country where you live.

The good news is that we both get to drink wine.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by gekko:
the world looks at alcohol for one reason: to get drunk.

Really? Certainly a lot of worldly people use alcohol to get drunk, but a lot of worldly people (maybe most) see alcohol as a complement to a meal, a festive drink, or a natural beverage that’s an alternative to water, tea and coffee.

you guys say that we are allowed to use alcohol, but in moderation.

Many of us say it because that’s what we are convinced the Bible teaches.

what i think is that if the world thinks to use it to get drunk: and if the world sees us drinking - then they think we're going to get drunk. (im being stereotypical here).

If “the world” sees that we are not abusing alcohol – and moreover, we are living in the spirit and power of Christ – they will know we are not getting drunk. I’ve been around believers and non-believers with a glass of wine in my hand and it often actually becomes a point of discussion… they are surprised by my moderation and it opens opportunities to discuss spiritual things.

…so personally i won't drink - heck wine tastes good - but it sure gave me a buzz - and that was the first and last glass i had.

I had my first glass of wine at the age of 33 – actually, I shouldn’t say “glass” because I only drank half of it. Only once have I had more than one glass of wine in an evening, and usually I drink just half a glass of white wine. I’ve never had the desire to get drink, nor have I ever noticed any effect except for a better night’s sleep.

…so for me - i think its ultimately wrong.

That’s a perfectly fine conviction to have. For me, I think I would be wrong to avoid accepting hospitality (a glass of wine or champagne) from those I work with.

…who knows their own limits as to when they do/don't get drunk? i sure don't - and i dont intend to find out - because that is just a dangerous situation. no?

I don’t intend to find out either. And I won’t, because I practice moderation. (It also doesn’t hurt that I’m a very large person, about 6’05” and nearly 300 pounds on a large frame – it would take more than a glass or two of wine for me to feel any effects.)

…i dont believe in testing where the drawn line is. because if you step over that line without knowing it. your messed.

Yep. If you are concerned that you won’t be able to control yourself or have the desire to be drunk, then you shouldn’t drink.

Good post gekko!

 

[tamborine lady]

Matthew 11-19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Yes Jesus drank fermented wine.

Tam

 

[Claudia_T]

The prophet Isaiah speaks of the new wine "in the cluster," and says, "Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it." Isa. 65:8. The wine that Jesus provided for the wedding feast, and that which He gave to the disciples as a symbol of His own blood, was the pure juice of the grape.

 

[BobRyan]

Alcohol is a drug that goes directly to the central nervous system. Drinking alcohol for recreation is recreational drug abuse and causes huge medical liabilities as well as family problems, traffic accidents etc.

Culturally WE make a disctinction between Alcohol and ciggaretts -- vs other drugs that we "Control".

But our cultural acceptance of drug abuse in the case of alcohol and nicotine does NOT form a kind of "standard" for God to follow!

The Bible condemns it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[gekko]

just watch bobryan - they're gonna bring up coffee (which is a drug) and water and other rediculous things.

i look at it like this - if the bible doesn't talk about it - i tend to stay away from it. which is hard in some cases but you know what i mean - i dont want to adulterate the scriptures.

 

[gekko]

its just amazing how much people justify themselves in this subject.

i still stand where i was standing when i made my last post on the previous page.