Did Jesus Drink Alcoholic Beverages?

[Living_stone]

one question - if Jesus turned the water into fermented wine - wouldn't that be tempting people at the party to get drunk?

Temptation is the urge to use somethign good for bad. Jesus may have been attractive. His presence may have caused lust in some women. Does that mean he ought never to have gone anywhere to avoid the possibility of tempting others? No.

You have a very puritanical view of alcohol, and I think it's unhealthy, personally...

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath" (Col 2:16)

 

[gekko]

answer me this:

is alcohol a toxin?

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by gekko:
answer me this:

is alcohol a toxin?

Yes. Just as water, metals, microbes and preservatives/additives found in our foods are toxic at the right dosages.

Although this "toxic" line of reasoning is a pretty good promotion for naturopathic diets, organic foods and reducing the use of pesticides/herbicides in the production of our food products.

Wikipedia : Water Intoxication - also known as hyperhydration or water poisoning.

 

[billwald]

All our bodies contain molecules from Jesus' body. Any theological import to that?

 

[gekko]

its nice to see other christians trying to justify drinking alcohol by saying that so many other things can be toxic. you're doing a great job of justifying yourself there.

what's your conscience saying?

since alcohol is a toxin - at any dosage.
are we allowed to intoxicate our bodies?

or are we to keep clean the "temple of the Lord" which is our bodies. no?

 

[nate]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
no gekko, don't tell them they get intoxicated by even one sip.

Please provide scientific proof that one gets drunk on 1 sip of wine. That whole idea is crazy and not accurate.

 

[Bro Tony]

I have shown in the Bible that Jesus drank alcoholic wine, I even used the KJV for our KJVOist and yet they refuse to believe. Me thinks their favorite verse to use on others, "having eyes they refuse to see..." has come back and bite them. Don't confuse them with biblical facts that don't fit their pet beliefs, such as this subject and the unbiblical teaching of KJVOism.

Bro Tony

 

[nate]

Originally posted by Bro Tony:
"having eyes they refuse to see..." has come back and bite them. Don't confuse them with biblical facts that don't fit their pet beliefs, such as this subject and the unbiblical teaching of KJVOism.

How true....

 

[Claudia_T]

JESUS WAS NOT A GLUTTON AND A DRUNKARD

The phrase “eating and drinking” is used to describe the difference between the social lifestyle of Jesus and that of John the Baptist.

Jesus came “eating and drinking,” meaning that He lived a lifestyle of free social association.
By contrast, John came “eating no bread and
drinking no wine” (Luke 7:33), he lived a lifestyle of social isolation.

 

[Dustin]

Gek, am I sinning when I drink real wine while taking the Lord's supper?

 

[Claudia_T]

Dustin,

Can you imagine Christ bending over to bless in prayer a cup containing alcoholic wine which the Scripture warns us not to even look at (Prov 23:31)?


The wine of the Last Supper is something to consider. In the gospels Jesus calls the contents of the cup “the fruit of the vine” (Luke 22:18; Matt 26:29; Mark 14:25).

Communion wine is provided by the Mosaic law which required the exclusion of all
fermented articles during the Passover feast (Ex 12:15; 13:6, 7)


“fruit” (gennema) means that which is produced in a natural state, just as it is gathered.

Fermentation and decay is unnatural.

Using the same terminology, Josephus, the Jewish historian who was
a contemporary of the apostles, specifically calls the three clusters of grapes freshly
squeezed in a cup by Pharaoh’s cupbearer “the fruit of the vine.”

This shows us that the phrase was used to describe the sweet, unfermented, natural juice of the grape.

“Leaven” for Christ represented corrupt nature and teachings, as the disciples later
understood (Matt 16:12). They were to use unleavened bread at communion.
How could the wine symbolize the incorruptible, pure and “precious blood of Christ” (1 Peter 1:18-19) if it was fermented?

It was instructed that John the Baptist should drink neither wine nor strong drink. Similar abstinence was enjoined upon the wife of Manoah. And He pronounced a curse upon the man who should put the bottle to his neighbor's lips.

[ May 10, 2006, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]

 

[Bro Tony]

Claudia,

What do you suppose He was eating and drinking for the accusation (although untrue) to be said against him. You don't call someone a winebibber because he drinks Welches.

Bro Tony

 

[Dustin]

Alrighty, but my question stands...

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by gekko:
if there's alcohol (which is a toxin) in wine - then one is intoxicated when it is drank. right?

Proverbs 31:5-6 -- Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter. Let him drink and forget his poverty And remember his trouble no more.

Do you obey this passage and give wine to someone whose life is bitter, and strong drink to one perishing, or do you disobey this passage?

 

[JackRUS]

One should alao note that in 1 Cor. 11:20-22 it says this:

"When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.
For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not."

So they used real fermented wine for communion. No where will you find a commandment to use grape juice instead.

For one reason it wasn't invented yet. The Welch family invented it in the 19th century actually for communion.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050323-024611-1657r.htm

http://www.ohiosbdc-ysu.com/Location/Guide/Oscar_Mayer/Wrigley/Welch_s/welch_s.html

Here is a good study on the use of the term wine in Scripture:

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append27.html

Wine was a part of the culture back then, and a little was consumed sometimes with a meal.

 

[Claudia_T]

Louis Ginzberg (1873-1941 gives his exhaustive analysis of the Talmudic references
regarding the use of wine in Jewish religious ceremonies. ) Ginsberg is a
distinguished Talmudic scholar who for nearly forty years was chairman of the Department of Talmudic and Rabbinic Studies at the Jewish Theological Seminary of America

His conclusion: “We have thus proven on the basis of the main passages both of the
Babylonian Talmud and that of Jerusalem that unfermented wine may be used lekatehillah
[optionally] for Kiddush [the consecration of a festival by means of a cup of wine] and
other religious ceremonies outside the temple.”

Now from the Jewish Encyclopedia, cencerning the time of the Last Supper: “According to the synoptic Gospels, it would appear that on the Thursday evening of the last week of his life Jesus with his disciples entered Jerusalem in order to eat the Passover meal with them in the sacred city; if so, the wafer and the wine of the mass or the communion service then instituted by him as a memorial would be the unleavened bread and the unfermented wine of the Seder service.”

 

[Jim1999]

I have read all the arguments for and against an alcoholic wine used in NT times. I really don't have and answer, and I really don't care. It is not an earth-shaking thing. I do have difficulty believing that my Lord would turn water (a miracle) into a potentially dangerous brew leading to an alcoholic stupor. I just can't comprehend that, and that is where I leave the non-issue.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[rbell]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:


Fermentation and decay is unnatural.

Wrong.

I'm a tee-totaller, but you're way off base.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by billwald:
All our bodies contain molecules from Jesus' body. Any theological import to that?

I don't think so --- that our bodies contain molecules from Jesus' body.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Gekko, I wouldn't dare suggest tat you, thinking ingestion of any amount of alcohol, agree to do so. This would be for you a sin, according to Scripture.

However, I wonder at the condemnation of those who feel differently about themselves. Why? Am I harming you in some way, especially seeing as I am an ocean away and not ingesting any amount of alcohol in your presence -- or, for that matter, in he presence of anyone who feels as you do?