Did Jesus Drink Alcoholic Beverages?

[webdog]

It's amazing that the abstaining / driniking is sin crownd focuses on wine ONLY with the "fruit of the vine is grapejuice" argument. What do you guys confuse "strong drink" with...espresso?

Will someone who believes alcohol consumption is sin PLEASE explain these texts:

Deu 14:26 You may spend the money on anything you want: cattle, sheep, wine, beer, or anything you desire. You are to feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice with your family.

Isa 25:6 The LORD of Hosts will prepare a feast for all the peoples on this mountain--a feast of aged wine, choice meat, finely aged wine.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by gekko:
its nice to see other christians trying to justify drinking alcohol by saying that so many other things can be toxic. you're doing a great job of justifying yourself there.

what's your conscience saying?

since alcohol is a toxin - at any dosage.
are we allowed to intoxicate our bodies?

or are we to keep clean the "temple of the Lord" which is our bodies. no?

This line of thinking would mean consuming salt, trans fat's, caffeine, sugar, and any / all junk food would be considered sin, since we know they are not "good for us".

As far as "what is our conscience saying", is it our conscience...or is it how we have been raised and what has been hammered into us by legalists who choose to eisegete the Scriptures to say what they want them to say?

 

[gekko]

alcohol is a toxin we're suppused to keep ouselves clean.

if a group of non-christians saw you drinking an alcoholic beverage - would they think you're a christian?

from a non-christian point of view. would they?

 

[webdog]

It depends on the "non Christian". Would they think you automatically were a Christian if they saw a Sprite can in your hand? If they are influenced by the same legalists as Christian, probably.

Alcohol is only a toxin in large quatities...like anything in the world we consume. If it were so toxic, why does it have any health benefits at all?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Cocaine can kill. That means it also is toxic. But hospitals do use minute amounts of it for medicinal purposes.

Does that make it right?

I say no.

 

[webdog]

It doesn't matter what you say, what does the Bible say? Can you please explain Isaiah 25:6 and Deuteronomy 14:26 from your "alcohol is sin" viewpoint for me?

Water can kill. That means it also is toxic. But we drink water everyday, some of us eight cups of it.
Does that make it right?
I say yes.

 

[gekko]

ok - so when does a lie become a lie? 10 lies and a bell goes off?

same with alcohol - when does it become toxic? 10 beers and a bell goes off?

i would be labelled a murderer if a murdered just one person. i'd be labelled a rapist if i raped just one person.

i'd be labelled a liar for telling one lie.

could i be labelled an acoholic of sorts if i took in just just a little bit of alcohol?

 

[gekko]

these are the verses you are talking about right webdog?

6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

------

26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

------

 

[webdog]

ok - so when does a lie become a lie? 10 lies and a bell goes off?

same with alcohol - when does it become toxic? 10 beers and a bell goes off?

It becomes toxic when you die. Why is it that one glass of wine a day protects your heart?

would be labelled a murderer if a murdered just one person. i'd be labelled a rapist if i raped just one person.

i'd be labelled a liar for telling one lie.

Yes you would. Drunkeness and gluttony under your labelling system would be one ounce of alcohol and one french fry.

could i be labelled an acoholic of sorts if i took in just just a little bit of alcohol?

What is the definition of "alcoholic"?

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by gekko:
these are the verses you are talking about right webdog?

6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

------

26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

------

yes. The first one is dealing with a feast the LORD HOSTS, the second is THE LORD SPEAKING.

 

[gekko]

oh i forgot to mention to tragic_pizza... we aren't an ocean apart... im still in canada - just waiting for brisbane...

 

[gekko]

ok... then what does the verse in proverbs mean "wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging, whosoever is decieved thereby is not wise"

??

 

[webdog]

The key from that verse is "deceived" (translated "led astray" in another translation). This is talking strictly about abuse of alcohol.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Doctors have indeed proved that one 8 ounce glass of wine is good for the heart. But at what cost? That same 8 ounce glass has its disadvantages. It does weaken the liver and the kidneys, and destroys or numbs cells in the brain as well.

Guess that is why so many are deceived by that one glass... brain cells that would normally allow them to see the damage to the other parts of the body are destroyed or numbed.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by gekko:
oh i forgot to mention to tragic_pizza... we aren't an ocean apart... im still in canada - just waiting for brisbane...

Thanks for the clarification. Please address my question. Thanks.

 

[gekko]

nah. you aint harming me - but that's the the whole deal here. is it harming you?

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by gekko:
nah. you aint harming me - but that's the the whole deal here. is it harming you?

We tenderized some beef yesterday with some australian shiraz before putting it on the grill. Definitely no harm there .... mmmmm.

NASB - Psalm 104:14-15

He causes the grass to grow for the cattle,
And vegetation for the labor of man,
So that he may bring forth food from the earth,
And wine which makes man's heart glad,
So that he may make his face glisten with oil,
And food which sustains man's heart.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by gekko:
nah. you aint harming me - but that's the the whole deal here. is it harming you?

What matter is it of yours, that my ingestion of small amoounts of alcohol should become a matter of theological offense to you and others, then?

 

[gekko]

i never said it was a matter of theological offense to me or others... did i?

 

[gekko]

proverbs 23:

29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. 34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. 35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.