Did Jesus ever kill anyone?

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Although, he may have taken on many forms, he is still the same God. He is the Great I AM of all eternity. The God who killed all the Egyptian children is the same God who saved us from our sin.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Brother Bob]

Although, he may have taken on many forms, he is still the same God. He is the Great I AM of all eternity. The God who killed all the Egyptian children is the same God who saved us from our sin.

Joseph Botwinick
__________________

Yes Joseph, but not Jesus (God in the Flesh) who you said killed people,

 

[Jarthur001]

Now that is the question of the century.

aaaaw there you are. Your late. I was looking for you a hour ago.

It seems it is a public message board.

right?



out doing a little ..."post and run"?

 

[El_Guero]

Joseph

Someday soon, God will take you home. Will he murder you, kill you, or allow your end to come?

Semantics being a human endeavor, should it really matter to us what end causes us to stand before a Holy and Righteous God? Or should we be doing the best we can with God's help to get ready?

Humbly your servant

Wayne

On another thread which is now closed, Brother Bob made the statement that he had never seen Jesus go around killing anyone. I corrected his theological error by stating that since Jesus was God, that he had indeed killed many people. I was then accussed of justifying the murders of Calvin by this. This is not true. I argued that God was fully righteous in all his judgments while Calvin was not as a sinner, thereby showing the difference between God and John Calvin. I was then accussed of calling Jesus a murderer. This is not true as I believe that all of God's judgments are holy and just. A murderer is unholy, sinful, and unjust.

I then asked several questions which were never answered by Brother Bob. I will repeat these questions here and hope that he will attempt to answer them from a Biblical perspective instead of giving us an opinion poll of his buddies of all different denominations at the local gym:

1. Do you believe Jesus is, and always has been God?
2. Did God, in his righteous judgment, ever kill anyone?
3. Do you have a problem referring to Jesus as God?
4. Do you think God was justified in killing all those Egyptians and many others?

I would answer yes to questions #1,2, and 4. I would answer no to question #3. If Brother Bob would like to answer these questions honestly without telling lies about my statements, I would love to hear his honest opinion about this here. I am also open to hearing other peoples' answers to these questions as well.

Let's try to keep this thread civil.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Brother Bob]

and the angel broke what

Thought that what we been talking about the power of God. Ha

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Yes Joseph, but not Jesus (God in the Flesh) who you said killed people,

You are correct that he was not in the flesh, but he was still God and has always been. Although, we did not know him as God in the flesh, he was with God and WAS God. He is the great I AM of all eternity. The same God who killed the Egyptian Children is the same God who saved us from our sin. His name is Jesus...and he always has been, is, and always will be God. The God of all eternity.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[El_Guero]

Although, he [sic] may have taken on many forms, he [sic] is still the same God. He is the Great I AM of all eternity. The God who killed all the Egyptian children is the same God who saved us from our sin.

Joseph Botwinick

If God took on forms, then he is one god.

The True Creator, God is not a form, and He is the Trinity. Same substance (God), but distinct in Persons (Father, Son, & Holy Ghost).

'God' taking on forms is modalism. Oneness theology. Akin to sabellianism.

 

[Brother Bob]

Now, Joseph;
I offer my hand in friendship and put all this behind us. Do you accept?:flower:

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Joseph

Someday soon, God will take you home. Will he murder you, kill you, or allow your end to come?

Semantics being a human endeavor, should it really matter to us what end causes us to stand before a Holy and Righteous God? Or should we be doing the best we can with God's help to get ready?

Humbly your servant

Wayne

God does not commit murder because all his actions and judgments are holy, righteous and just. He may choose to kill me. If so, I will praise his name as did Job in Job 1:20-22.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Now, Joseph;
I offer my hand in friendship and put all this behind us. Do you accept?:flower:

No sir. I have not heard an apology for your lies about me. There is no friendship in deceit.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[DeeJay]

God presents Himself as three seperate personages that are one being.

Jesus and the Father are the same being even if He has the power to be different forms in different places in the same time.

It really dosent matter when Christ was first called Jesus. Jesus Christ is God the same God that is the Father and it has been that way for all eternaty. If my left hand does something (waves goodby) then all of me did it even if it was only my left hand.

:wavey:

 

[canadyjd]

Yes, but you fail to see He took on different forms. One as the Father, one as the Son and one as the Holy Ghost.

El_Guero is right Brother Bob. What you are saying here comes very close to modelism. This is "oneness" theology. If you really meant what you said about "God didn't die on the cross", then you have slipped into sabellianism.

I do think I understand what you are trying to say, however. That God the Son did not become "Jesus" until He was incarnate. Jesus, then, as God incarnate, did not kill anyone. I think that point was made early on by someone.

peace to youraying:

 

[LeBuick]

You make a logical error by assuming that because Jesus never practiced his omni-presence in the flesh that he could not have done so.

Joseph Botwinick

Jesus was limited because of flesh. You don't believe me, look closely at the garden of Gethsemene.

 

[LeBuick]

Do you believe that Jesus was God before he was incarnated? Was Jesus God from the very beginning? What do you say about that which is fully man and fully God? If Jesus was simply concieved of the flesh as some liberals think, then you would have a point with your last statement. Jesus, however, was more than mere flesh. He always has been, is, and always will be God.

Joseph Botwinick

Jesus was one born out of time where as Christ existed before there was. Yes, he was more than flesh, the second part of the God head occupied the fleshly body. Now notice how many times he says greater than this can you do. Don't you find that interesting?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Jesus was limited because of flesh. You don't believe me, look closely at the garden of Gethsemene.

Jesus may have imposed limits upon himself, but he was no less God because of it, and was no less in control. If you don't believe me, just check out his answer to Pilate's arrogant proclamation that he had the power to kill him and set him free. Something about him being able to call down legions of angels at any moment and his kingdom not being of this world.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Jesus was one born out of time where as Christ existed before there was. Yes, he was more than flesh, the second part of the God head occupied the fleshly body. Now notice how many times he says greater than this can you do. Don't you find that interesting?

Not really. Is there a reason I should?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[canadyjd]

Jesus was one born out of time where as Christ existed before there was. Yes, he was more than flesh, the second part of the God head occupied the fleshly body. Now notice how many times he says greater than this can you do. Don't you find that interesting?

God the Son did much more than "occupy" a fleshly body. He took on humanity forever. Jesus will forever be the "God-man". The one who is fully God and fully man.

What do you think Jesus meant when He said they would do greater things?

peace to you.raying:

 

[LeBuick]

He was God since the beginning of eternity, and shall be throughout all of eternity. He is the Great I AM.

Joseph Botwinick

In a sense, Christ, the worthy lamb was there from the beginning. When the word became flesh (again, born out of time)??? Remember, Jesus was 100% human and 100% divine. The divine was there from the beginning but the flesh was born out of time. Both the flesh and the Divinity = Jesus who died on the Cross.

 

[canadyjd]

In a sense, Christ, the worthy lamb was there from the beginning. When the word became flesh (again, born out of time)??? Remember, Jesus was 100% human and 100% divine. The divine was there from the beginning but the flesh was born out of time. Both the flesh and the Divinity = Jesus who died on the Cross.

What do you mean by "born out of time"?

peace to youraying:

 

[Brother Bob]

El_Guero is right Brother Bob. What you are saying here comes very close to modelism. This is "oneness" theology. If you really meant what you said about "God didn't die on the cross", then you have slipped into sabellianism.

I do think I understand what you are trying to say, however. That God the Son did not become "Jesus" until He was incarnate. Jesus, then, as God incarnate, did not kill anyone. I think that point was made early on by someone.

peace to youraying:

You miss the whole point, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. The problem with all of us is trying to put this all in our puny minds as if we had the mind of God.

DeeJay;
It does matter when this whole thing is over Joseph saying that Jesus killed people so when He became Jesus is the whole answer to it all. amen,