freeatlast
New Member
I agree with all except the last statement. That is not clear in scripture in fact I don't think scripture teaches that.
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Did Jesus experience "hell Upon the Cross?"
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
31 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh suffer decay.
"He" is connected to "Christ" by the word "that".
Psalm 16:10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
10 For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Jesus descended to lower parts of the earth, but was not abandon left there. He was raised in three days. Two partial days one full day, three days. His flesh was in the grave, but did not decay. I can leave my kid in day care, but I did not abandon him.
freeatlast
New Member
No, three full days and three full nights.
Mat 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
This may also help. A little long but very exhaustive; It is two parts
http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_29_Crucifixion-Week-1
http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_30_Crucifixion-Week-2
psalms109:31
Active Member
Wow i believed that Jesus was crucified Friday and raised on Sunday morning. When i have time this weekend i need to study to see how that scripture works with the scheme of things.
Personnally I would ignore it, there is absolutely no reason to take this literalistic view of 3 days and three nights (ie 72 hours) it stems from a modern rationalistic mindset that fails to appreciate the huge impact that 'the clock' has made on our lives and it does not fit with the scriptural record.
After all, by the testimony of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus it was the third day since the death of Jesus Christ, Luke 24:31. If Jesus had to be in tomb 72 hours exactly then it could not be the third day, it would have to be the fourth day! However Jesus did not need to be in the tomb 72 hours because we do not know how long Jonah was in the belly of the fish do we? Was it 64 hours perhaps?
You see a hebrew would count part of day as a full day in their reckoning, and we recognise that elsewhere in scripture, for example in the story of Eshter. In est 4:16 we read that she called a fast for three days and nights to procede her visit to the king, however in ch 5:1 we read that she goes into the king on the third day. How could that be? The only explanation is that time was noted in the same precise way that we often do today.
freeatlast
New Member
I think you will be pleasantly surprised as it is a blessing to see the truth.
freeatlast
New Member
You speak very foolishly. You have not read the article and you claim it wrong by saying what it does not say. The Lord speaks to you about this;
Pro. 18:2
A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
Well the first artical you posted falls flat on its face in relation to Luke 24:21 which clearly identifies the first day of the week as being the third day'
Luke 24:21 "But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened.
So working backwards
Sunday - day 3
saturday - day 2
Friday - day 1
Friday was the day the cruxifiction happened as you don't have a day 0. For excample when you start a new job when do you begin, on day 0 or is it your first day at work!
So the artical does not say this then;
artical said:
No comment, friend
Luke 24:21 But we were hoping that he would be the Saviour of Israel. In addition to all this he has now let three days go by from the time when these things took place; Bible in Basic English
The better of translations of the Greek. Maybe???
Google around for explanation if interested.
No, not a better translation at all!
Beside this is only one of three texts that make the point, there is also Acts 10:40
Acts 10:40 "Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly,"
and
1 Corinthians 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, (1Co 15:4 NKJ)
The bible case for a fri death and sunday resurrection is solid
freeatlast
New Member
Until you read the article;
You speak very foolishly. You have not read the article and you claim it wrong by saying what it does not say. The Lord speaks to you about this;
Pro. 18:2
A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
When you think about it 72 hours is inclusive of; on, in and after three days.
psalms109:31
Active Member
1 Chronicles 9:32
Some of the Kohathites, their fellow Levites, were in charge of preparing for every Sabbath the bread set out on the table.
John 2 :
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
Mark 15 :
The Burial of Jesus
42 It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus’ body. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. 45 When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph. 46 So Joseph bought some linen cloth, took down the body, wrapped it in the linen, and placed it in a tomb cut out of rock. Then he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joseph saw where he was laid.
Luke 23::
The Burial of Jesus
50 Now there was a man named Joseph, a member of the Council, a good and upright man, 51 who had not consented to their decision and action. He came from the Judean town of Arimathea, and he himself was waiting for the kingdom of God. 52 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body. 53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid. 54 It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.
John 19 :
31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
1 Corinthians 15 :
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[Or you at the first]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
From the time Jesus was arrested He was in hell the belly of the whale, but it wasn't buried, but I also will not go against the scripture three days and three nights?
I choose not to argue against any of those scriptures, but proclaim Jesus has risen.
Some of the Kohathites, their fellow Levites, were in charge of preparing for every Sabbath the bread set out on the table.
John 2 :
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
Mark 15 :
The Burial of Jesus
42 It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus’ body. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. 45 When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph. 46 So Joseph bought some linen cloth, took down the body, wrapped it in the linen, and placed it in a tomb cut out of rock. Then he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joseph saw where he was laid.
Luke 23::
The Burial of Jesus
50 Now there was a man named Joseph, a member of the Council, a good and upright man, 51 who had not consented to their decision and action. He came from the Judean town of Arimathea, and he himself was waiting for the kingdom of God. 52 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body. 53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid. 54 It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.
John 19 :
31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
1 Corinthians 15 :
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[Or you at the first]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
From the time Jesus was arrested He was in hell the belly of the whale, but it wasn't buried, but I also will not go against the scripture three days and three nights?
I choose not to argue against any of those scriptures, but proclaim Jesus has risen.
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This is the second time you thrown this accusation at me brother and it does you even less credit this time then it did before!
Clearly the artical is defending a woodenly literal 72 hour view of the entombing of the Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore a Wednesday cruxifiction as I will go on to show at more lenght as you seem to have ignored the first quotation I supplied from it! If nothing else the quotes will demonstrate that I have gone through the artical in its entirety!
The opening statements include this;
and
and
and
So the writer in his opening statements clearly states that a Friday cruxifiction and Sunday resurection is a view based purely on tradition and that any Christian that holds to it foolish and rejecting scripture and the deity of Christ and he goes to say that he will refute the traditional view.
Add his opening remarks to the quote I provided previously, namely;
and on page two it states;
This is what I am responding to, and saying it is wrong, and I have explained why I believe it to be wrong. Now, may I suggest you stop telling me the artical is not defending a wednesday cruxifiction view please so you may disagree with my understanding of the biblical text but you have no case to make against me for misrepresenting the artical as you keep doing. If you think I have misunderstood any of these statements, ie the author is not denying a friday cruxifiction then please show me the error of my understanding.
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When you think about it you soon realise that no one actually uses language in the precise way those who promote a Wednesday cruxifiction demand.
Returning to the artical we were dirceted to, let me make three brief points about how to spot a false arguement if I may
My freind, one way to tell if a view is an error based upon one's tradition is to look at the usual way the normal rules of exegesis are suspended. In this case we notice the failure to examine the words in an grammatical-historical context. Why do the writers not examine passages Like Esther 4 and 5 when it comes to resolving the conflict between passages that say '3 days and 3' night with those that clearly say 'on the third day' - it is simple common sense to compare similar usages of idiom in the bible.
A second way to tell if one is speaking through their own traditions is the way they misrepresent others, in the articals we have been directed it is claimed that those who hold to a friday cruxifiction believe Jesus rose at 6am Sunday morning - we believe nothing of the sort, we believe he rose before the women got to the tomb at dawn on Sunday morning!
A third way is to notice the ridicule placed upon those who disagree with the view presented, in the artical we are told we are foolish if we hold to a friday resurrection - this is not so subtle pressure to conform to the commentators view, after all, none of us want to be foolish - if the case from teh scripture was strong enough such tactics would be needed - it is the sign of a week arguement.
You do understand that the 15th day of Nisan is a special sabbath day regardless of what day of the week it falls on. Therefore all Passover's were a Preparation Day.
When you think about it you soon realise that no one actually uses language in the precise way those who promote a Wednesday cruxifiction demand.
Returning to the artical we were dirceted to, let me make three brief points about how to spot a false arguement if I may
My freind, one way to tell if a view is an error based upon one's tradition is to look at the usual way the normal rules of exegesis are suspended. In this case we notice the failure to examine the words in an grammatical-historical context. Why do the writers not examine passages Like Esther 4 and 5 when it comes to resolving the conflict between passages that say '3 days and 3' night with those that clearly say 'on the third day' - it is simple common sense to compare similar usages of idiom in the bible.
A second way to tell if one is speaking through their own traditions is the way they misrepresent others, in the articals we have been directed it is claimed that those who hold to a friday cruxifiction believe Jesus rose at 6am Sunday morning - we believe nothing of the sort, we believe he rose before the women got to the tomb at dawn on Sunday morning!
A third way is to notice the ridicule placed upon those who disagree with the view presented, in the artical we are told we are foolish if we hold to a friday resurrection - this is not so subtle pressure to conform to the commentators view, after all, none of us want to be foolish - if the case from teh scripture was strong enough such tactics would be needed - it is the sign of a week arguement.
I do not understand what the passages from Esther have to do with the conversation. She was going to fast for three days and three nights. I do not know the time she started or the time she ended but she did so on the third day. For all I know Daniel 9:27 is a literal prophesy of a seven day week yet I don't think I would use that passage necessarily for a Wednesday death?
I might add I am not sure if three days and three nights in the heart of the earth mean dead for three days and three nights or buried for three days and three nights. At the moment I think I would lean toward the former, that is dead.
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