Did Judas repent?

[Bro. Curtis]

You are very nice about it.

But I definately think there are times when Christians can't be nice.

I'm not telling you how to view his posts, or respond to them. But I think his post is nothing short of blasphemy.

They disturb me, not because they shake my faith. But I learned the hard way that we have no idea who could be lurking about, reading this board.

That is why I post with such attitude. Because I don't want an unsaved person to read it & think it's the truth.

 

[AITB]

Hi Mr Curtis

Well, you could say, very firmly:

I do not believe the above post is the truth!

(And you could go on to share your concerns that it will mislead people)

That's actually a bit clearer - I think - than the metaphor you used because it explains that the issue here is 'truth'

Do you see what I mean?

But...far be it from me to tell you how to express yourself

It's just a thought

[ May 24, 2002, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I appreciate the advice.

I do not believe the above post is the truth does not even begin to describe it. The post, according to my Bible is a lie.
The poison of asps, if you will.

I have almost 840 posts here. I have had 3 edited by administrators for being too harsh. The people here know what to expect from me, & I have recieved a lot of P.M.s & e-mails asking me to keep it up.

I am not ashamed to call Jesus my savior, I am not afraid to say that my KJV Bible is the Holy, Innerrant, Inspired, Complete word of God, I am not going to put my shield or armour down, I will expose lies when I see them, & I will apologize to no one for it.

I hope you have a nice holiday weekend, I'm off to the mountains.

 

[AITB]

Only 3 out of 840 edited? I'd say that's pretty good!

Wow...the mountains? We'll be there in the summer. This weekend we're driving 400 miles to Minneapolis so my 9 year old can participate in a string ensemble performance at the Suzuki convention there this weekend.

We're not used to long drives like that but...hopefully we'll have a good family time in spite of all that time in the car.

Thanks for the interaction!

 

[John the Revelator]

Burton's post are interesting and disturbing at the same time. He seems to
be painting a picture of universalism....

Revelator

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by John the Revelator:
Burton's post are interesting and disturbing at the same time. He seems to
be painting a picture of universalism....

Revelator

I think he might be a universalist in the sense of believing all will be saved...but I can't remember for sure.

Ken, do you believe all will be saved, in the end?

 

[Gina B]

KEN: First: Under Jewish law, If you bore witness against someone, and that person was found to be innocent. The one who witnessed was to get the sentence for the Crime, In this case DEATH.
It is not a case of having known Forgiveness. The Jewish Priesthood was required to follow God's law given through Moses. When the Priests told Judas "You see to that." they were givng Judas the Authority which they should have carried out themselves, to execute Himself.

GINA: In this case, they could not have carried out the punishment on Judas without taking guilt on themselves. They were telling him they didn't care what he thought. It in no way implies they were telling him to punish himself.

KEN: Here is the law in Deuteronomy that star was looking for:
(DEUTERONOMY 19:16) If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; (KJV)
(DEUTERONOMY 19:17) Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; (KJV)
(DEUTERONOMY 19:18) And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; (KJV)
(DEUTERONOMY 19:19) Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. (KJV)
Because the Jewish Priesthood did not care if Jesus was innocent or not. They did not carry out this, as they would have had to set Jesus free.
Second: The Son of Perdition is the one lost. Jesus was given 12 Disciples and Power over His own life, to lay it down and to take it up again. To lay it down was to do God's will and willingly take sin upon Himself.
The Iniquity of us ALL ALL ALL as Isaiah 53:6 shows, That would include any iniquity Judas had. As Judas was doing this, The Disciples had also fled. Peter was saying He did not know Jesus, many forms of Iniquity here being committed. But Jesus has them all upon Himself.
(ISAIAH 53:6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (KJV)

GINA: You're taking OT laws and turning them into prophecies. If you're going to do that, you have to admit that there was no forgiveness for Judas, for he admitted to having innocent blood on his hands, and 2Kings 24:4 (KJV) says: "And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the LORD would not pardon."

KEN: Third: Judas is fulfill the Scriptures. Judas is "PEACE"
(PSALMS 85:10) Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. (KJV)
(PSALMS 2:12) Kiss the son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 26:49) And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him. (KJV)
The prophecies show that the kiss has to be fulfilled. And Judas is the "Peace" which kissed "Righteousness" which is Jesus.
(ISAIAH 55:12) For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. (KJV)
Judas is Peace, He lead them into the Garden, He leads them out. The mountains are the Priests, the hills are the 144 with Judas. Prophecies are songs, Singing is as they are being fulfilled, they are Praise when they are fulfilled.
(ISAIAH 60:17) For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness. (KJV)
Judas is the OFFICER, He is given the band of men to take Jesus.
Fourth: "Good for this man if he had never been born."
God at the end of Malachi, end of the Old Testament said He would send Elijah. Elijah was to prepare the way before the Lord. Elijah was carried up alive in a whirlwind to God. (Flaming chariot just separated Elisha and Elijah.)
The Jewish nation was and still is awaiting Elijah, a plate is set for Elijah at the passover meal. JUDAS comes in the SPIRIT of Elijah preparing the way before Jesus. "THAT WHICH YOU DO, DO QUICKLY." Had Elijah come physically, He would not have had to be born.

GINA: I'd hate to see what you do with the Song of Solomon! Going on your logic and how you try to connect verses, one could say the lady in the song is God, and her husband is Judas.
You aren't making logical connections Ken. You can make anything fit together if you want to, but it doesn't make it what the word says.
Malachi is referring to the day of the LORD, which is spoken of in Revelation. Unless you believe that the Bible and all in it has already come to pass, you'll see this.

KEN: As all prophecies are for the day of the cross, Heaven and earth passed away as the face of the Third beast with 6-wings is Sunrise to noon. Old heaven and old earth was the first two 6-hour periods. Heaven and earth had to pass away before one jot or tittle could pass from the law. So John the Baptist could not have been Elijah, as He is not there to fulfill the prophecy. Judas is.

GINA: All prophecies are fulfilled? Where are we and why? After Jesus had risen, the promise was given that he would return. When did this and the end-time prophecies happen? Please explain this further, I don't get it.

KEN:Isaiah 42:19/21 shows Jesus was blind to some things.
(ISAIAH 42:19) Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord's servant? (KJV)
(ISAIAH 42:20) Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. (KJV)

GINA: The servant that is blind is Israel. The messengers are those that preach without understanding. (ahem)

KEN: (MALACHI 4:5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: (KJV)
(MALACHI 4:6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. (KJV)
Jesus is made all things cursed. He is also as the earth. As the Jewish nation did not turn their hearts to God, Jesus is the earth that is smitten. God's word like as a fire in Jeremiah 23:29 is the earth destroyed by fire as Jesus dies on the cross.

GINA: The day of the Lord has not happened yet. Re-read the Bible, and re-read Revelation. Once again, you are strrrrretching to make the Bible fit what you'd like it to say. Jesus is the earth? Come on now, you gotta admit you're way out there on this one.

KEN: Fifth: Judas hanging himself:
Hanged himself=confessed.
Bowels gushed out=spilled his guts=confessed.

GINA: Suicide is not confession. Suicide is a way out when you do not know how to, or you refuse to, deal with a problem.

KEN: Here is the PROBLEM: Judas is STILL ALIVE when the Disciples chose another to replace him in Acts. For a DEAD MAN can not go to "HIS OWN PLACE."
ACTS 1:25) That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. (KJV)

GINA: Huh? His own place..this could refer to a number of things, seeing as Judas already had died when this was said: either referencing that Judas fell as to fulfill his place/lot in life, or that he had done it and gone on to his eternal destiny, OR that it is referring to another future disciple taking his place among the disciples.

KEN: Sixth: Judas does not go to hell. Judas is seen in Scripture prophecies as repenting and being accepted by God.
(JOB 33:27) He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not; (KJV)
(JOB 33:28) He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light. (KJV)
(JOB 33:29) Lo, all these things worketh God oftentimes with man, (KJV)
(JOB 33:30) To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living. (KJV)
If you want context for these verses. Prophecy for Jesus on the cross and the one called the good thief preceed the verses, along with Jesus rendering to man His righteousness.

GINA: HOW does this refer to Judas? Unless of course you're going on the universalist theme that all are saved. Are you?

KEN: Seventh: Judas is the Disciple Jesus loved, not John.
The Gospel writers went to great length not to name the Disciple Jesus loved. As Peter and the Disciple Jesus loved ran to the Sepulchre in the Gospel of John, John refers to them as "THEM" and as "THEY" which would not be if it was himself.
(JOHN 13:23) Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. (KJV)
(JOHN 13:24) Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake. (KJV)
(JOHN 13:25) He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it? (KJV)
(JOHN 13:26) Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. (KJV)
(JOHN 13:27) And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. (KJV)
(JOHN 13:28) Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him. (KJV)
(JOHN 13:29) For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor. (KJV)
NOTE CLOSELY: No man at the Table knew, The Disciple Jesus loved knew why it was said, He saw who got the sop, But Judas was the Disciples, and Judas just left. Judas was the one on Christ's bosom.
Notice how John will go to great lengths not to name the Disciple Jeus loved, But will use words showing it is not Himself.

GINA: I'm sure Jesus loved all of his disciples.

Knowing that Judas was coming to betray him, he even still called him "friend" at the moment of betrayal.
In the verses you referred to however, the person lying on his breast asked the question, and instead of it saying that he gave the sop to "him", it says he gave it to Judas. Also, the person holding the conversation with Jesus up to this point was and continued to be Peter.

KEN: (JOHN 20:2) Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, """and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved,""" and saith unto (((them,))) They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. (KJV)
(JOHN 20:3) Peter therefore went forth, """and that other disciple,""" and came to the sepulchre. (KJV)
(JOHN 20:4) So (((they))) ran both together: """and the other disciple""" did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. (KJV)
(JOHN 20:5) And (((he))) stooping down, {and looking in}, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went (((he))) not in. (KJV)
(JOHN 20:6) Then cometh Simon Peter following (((him))), and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, (KJV)
(JOHN 20:7) And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. (KJV)
(JOHN 20:8) Then went in """also that other disciple,""" which came first to the sepulchre, and (((he))) saw, and believed. (KJV)
(JOHN 20:9) For as yet (((they))) knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. (KJV)
(JOHN 20:10) Then the disciples went away again unto (((their))) own home. (KJV)
Not We or me, but He and they and them. Judas is the Disciples Jesus loved. But his name is not what they want to use.

GINA: I'm not sure on timing, but read Matthew 27. The morning after Jesus was arrested was when Judas said he had sinned, cast down the money, and went and hung himself. It appears to have happened before Jesus was ever nailed to the cross.

KEN: The Devil is God's Holy name, Judas is Michael the only one told to Daniel that aided Jesus in His coming to Daniel. Daniel is in corruption, and no breadth in him in the vision, a vision for when Jesus goes to the dead in the grave, a vision for the day of the cross.

GINA: Someone, anyone, tell me I'm interpreting Ken's words the wrong way here. Is he saying that the Devil is God and Judas is Michael? Ken? Do you understand the spiritual danger you are in if this is truly what you are saying? Please tell me if this is what you meant to say.

KEN: The Battle is on the mount of Olives, Old Heaven ended at Midnight so there place was not found in heaven anymore.
There are MANY MANY more verses that support these concepts. I have listed many. Scriptural reproofs are seldom seen against these concepts. But GIVE IT YOUR BEST.

GINA: All of your concepts can easily be refuted by NOT twisting scripture and taking the word of God for what it is and what it says.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by AITB:
I'm curious which actions lead you to think he didn't repent.

His suicide?

Or were you thinking of something else?

Yeah, it would have to be his suicide. But like I said, it's a big "I don't know" and "maybe" on this one.

 

[ken1burton]

Mr. Curtis.

God is not ashamed to pull the poor out of the Dunghill. And seeing Jesus as the tree of Life, and us as trees planted by the rivers of water, a little dung might make you grow.

Jesus ended the Daily Sacrifice when He offered Himself at Calvary. There is a curse for the one who would do this:

(EZRA 6:11) Also I have made a decree, that whosoever shall alter this word, let timber be pulled down from his house, and being set up, let him be hanged thereon; and let his house be made a dunghill for this. (KJV)

I guess we are Christ's house. The Body of Christ. This is also the Parable of the tree that did not bear fruit. And we are the Dung placed around the tree so it would bear fruit.

(LUKE 13:8) And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: (KJV)

Please note also. I ended the post asking for SCRIPTURAL REPROOFS. You did not provide one? Can you show Scripturally where this is wrong?

If you do not want a unsaved person (all saved by grace) to read this. Maybe you should show where I am wrong Scripturally so they can check what you say.

As far as not nice, No problem. Pour out hate if you wish, Jesus told me it comes with the territory.

Poison of Asps? Great. Get a glass and swollow it down. You do believe Mark 16:18? (I assume). You did mention the KJV being the Holy, Innerrant, Inspired, Complete word of God.

(MARK 16:18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (KJV)

I like the Armour part. Goliath thought Armour was needed, David did not.

AITB.

I know all are saved already. Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9:24's making a end of sin, and bringing in everlasting righteousness. The Disciples and Paul never got past the seal and saw sin ended. They spoke a lot of error. Past and present sin ended "With His stripes we are healed.", Jesus took future sin to Golgotha "While we were yet sinners" or still being humans which would error, "Christ died for us."

Gina.

Under the law, They would have to put Judas to death. They just did not care. "You see to that." can be interpreted different ways, But it places it in Judah's hands, as they wanted no part of it.

Gina. Jesus fulfills the Prophecies and the LAW. Not one Jot or Tittle shall pass from the LAW till all be fulfilled. The prophecies are God's words also. They all have to be fulfilled in Christ.

(MATTHEW 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (KJV)

(MATTHEW 5:18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (KJV)

Here is part of the LAW:

(LEVITICUS 16:8) And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat. (KJV)
(LEVITICUS 16:9) And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. (KJV)
(LEVITICUS 16:10) But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness. (KJV)

Jesus is the Sacrifice for sin. The Sacrifice has to be a GOAT. Jesus is the Passover LAMB. A Passover Lamb can be out of the GOATS. We all as SHEEP have gone astray, Jesus did not. He is the GOAT offered for sin, He is out of the GOATS as a Passover Lamb.

Barabbas is the Scapegoat, or better written ESCAPE GOAT set free.

(EXODUS 12:5) Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: (KJV)

(2KINGS 24:4) And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the Lord would not pardon. (KJV)

Jesus is JERUSALEM. Jesus takes the sin of the World, all the curses in Scripture now fall upon Jesus. All the Murders, all the thiefs, All the blasphemes, all the unbeliefs, are placed on Jesus.

(ISAIAH 53:6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (KJV)

(DEUTERONOMY 29:20) The Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven. (KJV)

"Under Heaven" is in hell. Christ's name is written there as He died at Golgotha and descended into hell, and the excess ink was BLOTTED OUT. The names are written while they are there, all left with Jesus on the third day. Hell ceased to exist.

(ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)

(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)

(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)

All the innocent blood was required of by Jesus paying it all. Jesus is "Every man's brother"

(GENESIS 9:5) And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. (KJV)

Jesus is the New Jerusalem come down from Heaven. Old heaven was sunset to Midnight, Jesus coming down from the Mount of Olives is what John in Revelation is seeing.

(REVELATION 21:2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (KJV)

Jesus is the BRIDE.

(ISAIAH 62:5) For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee. (KJV)

Arrayed in fine linen is Jesus in the Sepulchre, seen married to God when dead in Ezekiel 16:8.

(REVELATION 21:3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (KJV)

The Tabernacle of God is Jesus, He is the Holy City in which we dwell. The Body of Christ seen born the day of the cross in Psalms 2:6/7, given the Heathen in 2:8. All mankind in the Body of Christ. The Creation story is a similitude for the day of the cross, this is when God and Jesus create man in His Image, or in the Body of Christ. Jesus took away sin, Now it is Immanuel, or God with us.

144 with Judas seen as a wall in Revelation 21:17. Measured to angels by adding the Cubit. They are the Angels given charge over Jesus. They are multiplied by 1,000 in Deuteronomy 1:11. They are the 144,000 with Jesus in Revelation chapter 14. They are Virgins, Men travailing with Child. This is the Fulfillment of the Virgin Birth. The Body of Christ.

The day of His birth is cursed in Job 3:3/6. The Day perishes according to God's Word. This breaks the Covenant with day and night, This allows the Covenant with David to be broken as Jesus has to go into hell till the Third day. It also breaks the Covenant with the Levites, ends the Priesthood (Destroy this temple, the priesthood, not the building) and in three days I will raise another built without hands.)

(PSALMS 2:6) Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (KJV)
(PSALMS 2:7) I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee. (KJV)

(JOB 3:3) Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived. (KJV)
(JOB 3:4) Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it. (KJV)
(JOB 3:5) Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it. (KJV)
(JOB 3:6) As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months. (KJV)

(JEREMIAH 33:20) Thus saith the Lord; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; (KJV)
(JEREMIAH 33:21) Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers. (KJV)

The Presthood is the STONES cast down.

(LUKE 19:40) And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. (KJV)

The day of the cross the Disciples did hold their peace, and the Stones cried out "Crucify Him!"

Stones are cold to Jesus, Coals of fire are believers, so He kindles coals of fire with His breadth as He breathed on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Spirit."

All prophecies were fulfilled at Calvary. Old Heaven and Old Earth was the first 2 6-hour periods, they fled from the Face of the Third beast with 6-wings. The Face of a man. The third time period from sunrise to noon is the Judgment. The Third seal is the Black horse with Balances. A measure of wheat for a penny, Three measures of Barley for a penny. A penny is a day's wages, the day is seen as 1 24-hour period, and as three pictures.

(ISAIAH 30:26) Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the Lord bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. (KJV)

This has to be the day of the cross as they are healed. The day is made as 3 pictures, as two or three witnesses, always written as (2 or 3) as it is shown twice, and brought to pass as the third. So where ever (2 or 3) are gathered together in My name, there am I in the MIDST. The Midst is the FOURTH time period, He ends the Daily Sacrifice in the MIDST of the Week. The Fourth time period or MIDST is noon to sunset, as Jesus dies and ends the Daily Sacrifice.

The Fourth seal. Noon to sunset is the Pale Horse. Death followed by hell as Jesus dies and descends into hell. The Fourth day in Genesis, also a similitude, God makes two great lights. Sun seen in Psalms 89:36 likend to the Throne, Sun is Darkened as Jesus dies and they think it is the end. Moon likened in Psalms 89:37 to the Establishment of the throne. Turned to blood as the Blood of Christ establishes the Throne.

When the Fourth angel sounds, a third of the Sun and moon are smitten. or one of the three pictures has been fulfilled.

The Third angels sounds, the Star Wormwood falls to the Earth, that is sunrise to noon. Jesus is made all things cursed. Stars are signs. it is a sign of the Judgment falling on Jesus from sunrise to noon.

(AMOS 5:7) Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth, (KJV)

Now, as far as Jesus coming again physically. You see two men saying this in the book of Acts. The Ascension is seen in the Four Gospels, WHERE ARE THOSE TWO MEN? Why did four Gospel writters fail to record what they said? Did they believe them?

(JOHN 14:19) Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. (KJV)

Jesus in John 14:19 said something different. He comes with God and makes their ABODE with us, In the Spirit, not physically.

If you want to see Jesus coming on a white horse in the Clouds, No problem. The White horse is sunset to Midnight, Jesus takes the sin of the world.

(ISAIAH 44:22) I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. (KJV)

Jesus with sin, and He is the rider on the White horse, Jesus just told the Disciples He would go top prepare a place, and Now He has to do just that, as He goes forth conquering and to conquer.

(LUKE 18:31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (KJV)

ALL ALL ALL ALL Things written by the prophets. were fulfilled the day of the cross. The Second and third physical days were FUTURE similitudes. The nation of Israel awakening in 2029 ad is a future similitude also. GOD WILL DO NOTHING without showing it first. I am not a man, I added the Cubit, I am a angel on earth, and the angels in heaven do not know, a angel on earth can know the hour.

First day is sunset to Midnight, Second day as Midnight to sunrise, Spiritually dead or as in hell. Third day is sunrise to noon. "With His stripes we are healed.", or as risen from the DEAD. Which will be seen on the third physical day when Jesus resurrects, with all the dead as Isaiah 26:19 shows.

Suicide is not a confession, Judas did not commit suicide. hanging Himself and his bowels gushing out is ways of saying Judas confessed to the Disciples, that is why he is still alive when the Disciples choose another.

Now for Throwing the money down in the temple and going out and hanging himself. That is in the same sentence. The Japaneese bombed Pearl Harbor and we dropped the Atomic Bomb on them. Same day? it is in the same sentence. And the verse was written about thirty years after Jesus died at Calvary.

End times. "Let Him that is on the houetop, not come down to take anything out of His house." Jesus sits as a sparrow on the housetop on the cross. He has to stay there till death. "Let Him in the field not return to take up His clothes." The Sepulchre is in a garden or a field. Jesus only has the linen cloth. (good thing some gardener left some rags in the garden) That is for Jesus to say in the Sepulchre till the third day.

Jesus had power to take up His life, He can not use it. He has to "Wait on the Lord." so the others raise with Him the third day. "Together with Me dead body" "In the third day He shall raise us up" And He has to be with us to fulfill Zechariah 9:11.

Ones saying Lord, Lord are the Disciples. The day as 3 pictures: 1=Iniquity (workers of iniquity) 2=Mischief, 3=falsehood. One denighing Him before men is Peter. Jesus does not correct Peter, so He also denighs Peter, the 144 with Jesus is the Holy Angles, the angles given charge over Jesus, and in thier hands they bear Him up, upon a cross at Calvary. He has to CAST HIMSELF DOWN.

(PSALMS 7:14) Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. (KJV)

(MATTHEW 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (KJV)

This is the Disciples. look what they respond.

(LUKE 13:26) Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. (KJV)
(LUKE 13:27) But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. (KJV)

The Book of Revelation is the day of the cross seen as 7 time periods, all the 7's are the same thing. They gather the Vine of the EARTH, that should be clear. The Vine (john 15:1) is Trodden without the city, To a place called GOLGOTHA. The Blood of all the righteousness would be upon this generation (on Jesus) so the blood is seen poured out.

John is in the Spirit on the Lord's day=Day of the Cross.

First day. Sunset to Midnight. "Let there be LIGHT.", I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the Way the Truth and the Life, In My Father's house are many mansions, Etc, as Jesus pours out the Light.

Second day, people as waters. Jesus as the EARTH. 144 with Judas above the Firament (Jesus) sinners as waters under Jesus. Disciples as part of the Earth Flee as Islands.

Third day, waters gathered together, all into the Body of Christ. "With His stripes we are healed."

(GENESIS 2:4) These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, (KJV)

In the DAY DAY DAY.

(DANIEL 8:26) And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. (KJV)

And the Evening and the morning were the First day
And the Evening and the Morning were the Second day
and the Evening and the Morning were the third day.

Same evening and morning, the day of the cross as 7 days. A space between the old world and the new world, and be a week a year, 1,000 years, anything God needs to fulfill Scripture with.

God's word like as a fire in Jeremiah 239. Earth destoyed by fire is Jesus dies on the cross.

(JEREMIAH 4:19) My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war. (KJV)

Jesus as He cries out at death, Isaiah 58:1 shows a cry likened to a TRUMPET. "What if the Trumpet make a uncertain sound?"

(JEREMIAH 4:20) Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. (KJV)

Jesus is made all things cursed. all destroyed in Christ, The Curtain is the veil ripped in the Temple, Note Paul's MOMENT.
In a Moment, at the last Trump. The Trumpet shall sound, The Lord shall descend (into hell) and we shall be changed, (Jer 4:22)

(JEREMIAH 4:21) How long shall I see the standard, {and} hear the sound of the trumpet? (KJV)

(ISAIAH 58:1) Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. (KJV)

Jesus still crying out at death.

(JEREMIAH 4:22) For my people {is} foolish, they have not known me; they {are} sottish children, and they have none understanding: they {are} wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. (KJV)

Converted AS CHILDREN by God's word. Rebellious, but still as Children. "And we shall be changed."

(JEREMIAH 4:23) I beheld the earth, and, lo, {it was} without form, and void; and the heavens, and they {had} no light. (KJV)

Here is the EARTH, Here is the Dead Body of Christ, and here is the BEGINNING=At Calvary, The heavens have no light because Jesus just descended into hell.

(JOHN 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (KJV)
(JOHN 1:2) The same was in the beginning with God. (KJV)

Jesus the son of David raised to be the Son of God at Calvary is AS GOD.

(ZECHARIAH 12:8) In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David {shall be} as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. (KJV)

Jesus is dead part of the day so He is also as the Angle of the Lord when He is dead, "IN THAT DAY", Jesus is also Jerusalem and mankind is in Christ. Jesus is Feeble.

The Last supper started at Sunset, Jesus had been up all day, Now the day of the cross starts, and it will go on till about 4:20 pm. when Jesus dies, that figures with 70 years of a 1,000 year day, Jesus is Adam, alive 930 years, dead or desolate as Jerusalem 70 years. Figuring 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness with sunrise at 6am. Jewish day is not like our way of telling time.

Gina, Job 33:27/28 is for the day of the cross. Judas is the one repenting. Read the prior verses, it is Jesus on the cross and the one called the good thief standing up for Him. Jesus could get a pardon in Jeremiah 5:1 if one stood for Him so it is seen "I have found a Ransom."

I am saying the Devil is God's Holy name, I am saying Judas is Michael fighting with the Devil is the battle on the mount of Olives. I can show this scripturally quite close, seeing God speaks in Similitudes, and through Jesus in parables. Most of this is already on the post "Is the Devil real" on this board.

Ken1burton

 

[Gina B]

Huh? Are you ok?

 

[Star]

Sorry Gina (I'm laughing so hard!)

Are these your words?

GINA: All of your concepts can easily be refuted by NOT twisting scripture and taking the word of God for what it is and what it says.

Do you want to pick a place and start? I've been looking forward to someone tackling this lol! Come on... humor us, copy paste the thousand verses painstakingly posted and respond with an easy refute

In Him Kim

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ken Burton (one between screen name:
I am saying the Devil is God's Holy name, I am saying Judas is Michael fighting with the Devil is the battle on the mount of Olives. I can show this scripturally quite close, seeing God speaks in Similitudes, and through Jesus in parables. Most of this is already on the post "Is the Devil real" on this board.

Posted on "Is the Devil Real" thread:
"The Fall of Satan is easy. Satan is a name for the Word of God. Jesus had the iniquity of us all placed on Him. That is the fall."

This is all blasphemy, and not worth the bandwith that it is taking up.
DHK

 

[Gina B]

Originally posted by Star:
Sorry Gina (I'm laughing so hard!)

Are these your words?

GINA: All of your concepts can easily be refuted by NOT twisting scripture and taking the word of God for what it is and what it says.

Do you want to pick a place and start? I've been looking forward to someone tackling this lol! Come on... humor us, copy paste the thousand verses painstakingly posted and respond with an easy refute

In Him Kim

Yep, those are my words.

Back up a little, read my response to the first "painstakingly" copied and pasted barrage of verses taken out of their contexts. It's 2:30 am here, so I might just hold out until tommorrow to answer the last. Hadn't really planned on it, because it seems that what he's doing is pretty obvious to a person with an average intelligence level at the most, but as you wish. *curtsey*
Gina

 

[Gina B]

Ken: Under the law, They would have to put Judas to death. They just did not care. "You see to that." can be interpreted different ways, But it places it in Judah's hands, as they wanted no part of it.

Gina: so that's somewhat agreed on between us.

Ken: Jesus fulfills the Prophecies and the LAW. Not one Jot or Tittle shall pass from the LAW till all be fulfilled. The prophecies are God's words also. They all have to be fulfilled in Christ.

Gina: Yes, this is true, Jesus fulfills them.
Ken: (MATTHEW 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 5:18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (KJV)

Gina: I agree.

Ken: Here is part of the LAW:
(LEVITICUS 16:8) And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat. (KJV)
(LEVITICUS 16:9) And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. (KJV)
(LEVITICUS 16:10) But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness. (KJV)
Jesus is the Sacrifice for sin. The Sacrifice has to be a GOAT. Jesus is the Passover LAMB. A Passover Lamb can be out of the GOATS. We all as SHEEP have gone astray, Jesus did not. He is the GOAT offered for sin, He is out of the GOATS as a Passover Lamb.
Barabbas is the Scapegoat, or better written ESCAPE GOAT set free.

Gina: In OT times the priests would use two goats (among other animals)..one to be sacrificed, and other to let go. They were a representation of death in our place (the sacrificed one) and sin removed. (the one fleeing into the wilderness.) So you are correct. However, Jesus was also called the Lilly of the Valley, and argue that floweres aren't acceptable sacrifices. Jesus being alluded to in many different ways is common in the Bible. It doesn't mean you take one name and idea and built a complete belief out of it.

Ken quotes: (EXODUS 12:5) Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: (KJV)

Gina: Guess what? A goat without blemish was also acceptable.

Ken quotes: (2KINGS 24:4) And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the Lord would not pardon. (KJV)
Jesus is JERUSALEM. Jesus takes the sin of the World, all the curses in Scripture now fall upon Jesus. All the Murders, all the thiefs, All the blasphemes, all the unbeliefs, are placed on Jesus.

Gina: 2Kings is referring to Manasseh.
If you're going to say that Jesus is Jerusalem in this verse, then read the last sentence also. Judas shed the blood, and it says that the Lord would not pardon that. You're contradicting yourself again by misinterpreting the Scriptures. You can't make the verse fit into your interpretation without messing up.

Ken quotes: (ISAIAH 53:6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (KJV)

Gina: yes. This is what the verse says.

Ken quotes: (DEUTERONOMY 29:20) The Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven. (KJV)

Gina: this verse is referring to idolaters.

Ken says: "Under Heaven" is in hell. Christ's name is written there as He died at Golgotha and descended into hell, and the excess ink was BLOTTED OUT. The names are written while they are there, all left with Jesus on the third day. Hell ceased to exist.

Gina: Wrong. Under heaven is on the earth. The idolaters would have no name among the rightous people on earth, and he would be cursed.
Jesus went to gather his people from Abraham's bosom, a holding place for souls until the blood could cleanse them forever so that they could enter heaven. While this place existed, it and hell were parallel. Read the story of the rich man and Lazarus for a reference.

Ken quotes: (ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)
(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)

Gina: Yes? This is the promise. I don't know what the days refer to in Hosea 6:2. As far as I could guess, the first two days may be the two eras of pre and post sacrifice, but perhaps one of the people on this board with some study on the matter could explain it.

Ken quotes: (ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)
All the innocent blood was required of by Jesus paying it all. Jesus is "Every man's brother"

Gina: He is talking to Jerusalem. (the elect) Once again, another verse you've taken out of it's meaning. How/where is it said that Jesus is our brother?

Ken quotes: (GENESIS 9:5) And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. (KJV)

Gina: this is the law of capitol punishment. Even a Christian would be required to pay his debt TO THE PERSON he owes it to. If you're a Christian, true, God has forgiven your sins, but what you do on earth still has to be made right against the person/family you committed the crime against.

Ken: Jesus is the New Jerusalem come down from Heaven. Old heaven was sunset to Midnight, Jesus coming down from the Mount of Olives is what John in Revelation is seeing.

Gina: You're wrong. Jesus will walk among his people in the New Jerusalem. Read it again.

Ken quotes: (REVELATION 21:2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (KJV)
Jesus is the BRIDE.

Gina: Wrong. In the manner in which you're using the term, bride, refers to the church. However, it's not what is spoken of in this verse. It's spoken *as* a bride. It's used in the descriptive sense, not objective. (did I say that right?? )

Ken quotes: (ISAIAH 62:5) For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee. (KJV)

Gina: Yes? It's a beautiful picture of God rejoicing over his people.

Ken: Arrayed in fine linen is Jesus in the Sepulchre, seen married to God when dead in Ezekiel 16:8.

Gina: Ezekiel 16:8:"Ezekiel 16:8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine."

Ken quotes: (REVELATION 21:3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (KJV)
The Tabernacle of God is Jesus, He is the Holy City in which we dwell. The Body of Christ seen born the day of the cross in Psalms 2:6/7, given the Heathen in 2:8. All mankind in the Body of Christ. The Creation story is a similitude for the day of the cross, this is when God and Jesus create man in His Image, or in the Body of Christ. Jesus took away sin, Now it is Immanuel, or God with us.

Gina: *yawn* You're all confuseled, aren't you?
Revelation is in the future, it hasn't happened yet, but it will, ok? Yes, Jesus now dwells within the hearts of Christians, yes, we are "in" him, but we will also be literally "with" him in the New Jerusalem.

Ken: 144 with Judas seen as a wall in Revelation 21:17. Measured to angels by adding the Cubit. They are the Angels given charge over Jesus. They are multiplied by 1,000 in Deuteronomy 1:11. They are the 144,000 with Jesus in Revelation chapter 14. They are Virgins, Men travailing with Child. This is the Fulfillment of the Virgin Birth. The Body of Christ.

Gina: This looks like a measurement of the walls of the New Jerusalem. Measured *by* one of the seven angels.
Deut. 1:11 is a blessing on Abraham that he would become 1,000x more numerous than he was.
They are the 144,000 with Jesus: Provided your math is correct, interesting concept I'll have to look into.

What's it got to do with Judas repenting though?

Ken: The day of His birth is cursed in Job 3:3/6. The Day perishes according to God's Word. This breaks the Covenant with day and night, This allows the Covenant with David to be broken as Jesus has to go into hell till the Third day. It also breaks the Covenant with the Levites, ends the Priesthood (Destroy this temple, the priesthood, not the building) and in three days I will raise another built without hands.)

Gina: Whoa child, you just connected the words of Job with all that? Are you posting all of this for a joke just to see how people waste their time trying to sort through your confusion? PLEASE tell me how you're logically connecting the sentences in that paragraph.

Ken quotes: (PSALMS 2:6) Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (KJV)
(PSALMS 2:7) I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee. (KJV)

Gina: Yes, and?

Ken quotes: (JOB 3:3) Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived. (KJV)
(JOB 3:4) Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it. (KJV)
(JOB 3:5) Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it. (KJV)
(JOB 3:6) As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months. (KJV)

Gina: I think I get it...you were trying to connect the words of Job with the crucifixion again?

Ken quotes: (JEREMIAH 33:20) Thus saith the Lord; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; (KJV)
(JEREMIAH 33:21) Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers. (KJV)
The Presthood is the STONES cast down.
(LUKE 19:40) And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. (KJV)
The day of the cross the Disciples did hold their peace, and the Stones cried out "Crucify Him!"
Stones are cold to Jesus, Coals of fire are believers, so He kindles coals of fire with His breadth as He breathed on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Spirit."
All prophecies were fulfilled at Calvary. Old Heaven and Old Earth was the first 2 6-hour periods, they fled from the Face of the Third beast with 6-wings. The Face of a man. The third time period from sunrise to noon is the Judgment. The Third seal is the Black horse with Balances. A measure of wheat for a penny, Three measures of Barley for a penny. A penny is a day's wages, the day is seen as 1 24-hour period, and as three pictures.
(ISAIAH 30:26) Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the Lord bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. (KJV)
This has to be the day of the cross as they are healed. The day is made as 3 pictures, as two or three witnesses, always written as (2 or 3) as it is shown twice, and brought to pass as the third. So where ever (2 or 3) are gathered together in My name, there am I in the MIDST. The Midst is the FOURTH time period, He ends the Daily Sacrifice in the MIDST of the Week. The Fourth time period or MIDST is noon to sunset, as Jesus dies and ends the Daily Sacrifice.

Gina: ALL ALL ALL of this is a jumble of you throwing together verses that don't connect to each other! STOP IT, it's annoying!

Ken: The Fourth seal. Noon to sunset is the Pale Horse. Death followed by hell as Jesus dies and descends into hell.............
(AMOS 5:7) Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,.....Jesus with sin, and He is the rider on the White horse, Jesus .......
ALL ALL ALL ALL Things written by the prophets. were fulfilled the day of the cross....

Gina: More of the same. Revelation hasn't been fulfilled, the prophecies are not complete. Where are you now? Seriously. Where do you live and with whom?

Ken: Suicide is not a confession, Judas did not commit suicide. hanging Himself and his bowels gushing out is ways of saying Judas confessed to the Disciples, that is why he is still alive when the Disciples choose another.

Gina: I believe your wrong. Where do you get that from? Also, if Judas repented why wouldn't they have restored him to discipleship? LOL, I can't believe I'm even anwering some of this stuff! Guess I'm getting to read a lot of verses though, so thanks, but do you secretly have some kind of bet going on in the background over whether I'll answer or not?
I'm beginning to think this is the moderators playing a joke. Yikes!

Ken: Now for Throwing the money down in the temple and going out and hanging himself. That is in the same sentence. The Japaneese bombed Pearl Harbor and we dropped the Atomic Bomb on them. Same day? it is in the same sentence. And the verse was written about thirty years after Jesus died at Calvary.

Gina: Look at the whole context of the chapter and the placement of the words. Why would the author bounce from Christ, then to Judas in the temple, then to Judas after Christ's death, then start the logical pattern over again?

Ken: End times. "Let Him that is on the houetop, not come down to take anything out of His house." Jesus sits as a sparrow on the housetop on the cross. He has to stay there till death. "Let Him in the field not return to take up His clothes." The Sepulchre is in a garden or a field. Jesus only has the linen cloth. (good thing some gardener left some rags in the garden) That is for Jesus to say in the Sepulchre till the third day.

Gina: Huh? When did he have the linen cloth? Only at his burial, and you already said it was fine linen, not old rags. Oh, and you're connecting unfulfilled prophecy with other verses again and saying they already happened.

Ken: Jesus had power to take up His life, He can not use it. He has to "Wait on the Lord." so the others raise with Him the third day. "Together with Me dead body" "In the third day He shall raise us up" And He has to be with us to fulfill Zechariah 9:11.

Gina: Jesus, the Lord, has to wait on the Lord, to be raised up again? Please explain this further.

Ken: Ones saying Lord, Lord are the Disciples. The day as 3 pictures: 1=Iniquity (workers of iniquity) 2=Mischief, 3=falsehood. One denighing Him before men is Peter. Jesus does not correct Peter, so He also denighs Peter, the 144 with Jesus is the Holy Angles, the angles given charge over Jesus, and in thier hands they bear Him up, upon a cross at Calvary. He has to CAST HIMSELF DOWN.

Gina: Jesus was already taken in by the time this happened with Peter. The rest of the paragraph is just various mistatments.

Ken quotes: (PSALMS 7:14) Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (KJV)
This is the Disciples. look what they respond.

Gina: The 12 disciples? Where are you getting that from? This was the people that were trying to gain their salvation through faith in their works and not in Jesus.

Ken quotes: (LUKE 13:26) Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. (KJV)
(LUKE 13:27) But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. (KJV)

Gina: Yes. Who was he talking to?
Also, it kinda blows your universal theme out of the water doesn't it? Where did they go after being sent away from Jesus? He said he "would" say that to them, when did he do it?

Ken: The Book of Revelation is the day of the cross seen as 7 time periods, all the 7's are the same thing. They gather the Vine of the EARTH, that should be clear. The Vine (john 15:1) is Trodden without the city, To a place called GOLGOTHA. The Blood of all the righteousness would be upon this generation (on Jesus) so the blood is seen poured out.

Gina: 7, 3, where's 4?

Or is 3 now divided into 7? Or 7 boiled down to 3? What am I missing here?

Ken: John is in the Spirit on the Lord's day=Day of the Cross.

Gina: John was in the Spirit on the day he was given the vision of the Lord's day.

Ken: First day. Sunset to Midnight. "Let there be LIGHT.", I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the Way the Truth and the Life, In My Father's house are many mansions, Etc, as Jesus pours out the Light.

Gina: What are your verses that connect all this?

Ken: Second day, people as waters. Jesus as the EARTH. 144 with Judas above the Firament (Jesus) sinners as waters under Jesus. Disciples as part of the Earth Flee as Islands.

Gina: What are your verses that connect all this?

Ken: Third day, waters gathered together, all into the Body of Christ. "With His stripes we are healed."

Gina: What are your verses that connect all this?

Ken: (GENESIS 2:4) These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, (KJV)
In the DAY DAY DAY.

Gina: That places day one. Keep reading for history of the rest of the days.

Ken quotes: (DANIEL 8:26) And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. (KJV)
And the Evening and the morning were the First day
And the Evening and the Morning were the Second day
and the Evening and the Morning were the third day.

Gina: Keep reading the chapter and book for the interpretation and fulfillment of the prophecy.

Ken: Same evening and morning, the day of the cross as 7 days. A space between the old world and the new world, and be a week a year, 1,000 years, anything God needs to fulfill Scripture with.
God's word like as a fire in Jeremiah 239. Earth destoyed by fire is Jesus dies on the cross.

Gina: Question: HOW can you be a dispensationalist, a universalist, a preterist, and whatever else you are all wrapped up in one? Over and over, your statments don't match up to scripture. Do you find your beliefs changing every time you try to interpret what the Bible says? There's a reason for that...you're all mixed up. You're approaching it with ideas that I don't even want to guess the origin of, but it's truly a scary thought.

Ken: (JEREMIAH 4:19) My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war. (KJV)
Jesus as He cries out at death, Isaiah 58:1 shows a cry likened to a TRUMPET. "What if the Trumpet make a uncertain sound?"

Gina: Nice stretch, but the trumpet sound in Revelation when all of the elect are gathered happens in the future, and before Jesus returns literally to the earth.

Ken: (JEREMIAH 4:20) Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. (KJV)
Jesus is made all things cursed. all destroyed in Christ, The Curtain is the veil ripped in the Temple, Note Paul's MOMENT.
In a Moment, at the last Trump. The Trumpet shall sound, The Lord shall descend (into hell) and we shall be changed, (Jer 4:22)

Gina: The veil ripped because it was what seperated the people from Jesus. They had to have a priest act as an intercessor between them and God. When Jesus died, the veil was rent, symbolizing that the people could now go to Jesus themselves. He became the only intercessor.
Again, the last trump happens in the future. Jesus is coming back to earth, not to hell. Where do you get that he's descending into hell, and WHY would he do that?

(JEREMIAH 4:21) How long shall I see the standard, {and} hear the sound of the trumpet? (KJV)

Ken: (ISAIAH 58:1) Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. (KJV)
Jesus still crying out at death.
(JEREMIAH 4:22) For my people {is} foolish, they have not known me; they {are} sottish children, and they have none understanding: they {are} wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. (KJV)
Converted AS CHILDREN by God's word. Rebellious, but still as Children. "And we shall be changed."

Gina: Yes, the saved shall be changed THEN.
We are reborn into Christ's family as newborn Christians.

Ken: (JEREMIAH 4:23) I beheld the earth, and, lo, {it was} without form, and void; and the heavens, and they {had} no light. (KJV)
Here is the EARTH, Here is the Dead Body of Christ, and here is the BEGINNING=At Calvary, The heavens have no light because Jesus just descended into hell.

Gina: Why are you connecting these verses? What's that chapter in Jeremiah talking about? Does your interpretation change the rest of the chapter? Check it out.

Ken quotes: (JOHN 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (KJV)
(JOHN 1:2) The same was in the beginning with God. (KJV)
Jesus the son of David raised to be the Son of God at Calvary is AS GOD.

Gina: Not AS, but as a part of Him, WAS and IS. Where did you get "AS" from that text?

Ken quotes: (ZECHARIAH 12:8) In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David {shall be} as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. (KJV)

Gina: Ok, now I get it, it was an attempt to YET AGAIN make verses conform to your opinions. Once again, WAS God, not was AS God.

Ken: Jesus is dead part of the day so He is also as the Angle of the Lord when He is dead, "IN THAT DAY", Jesus is also Jerusalem and mankind is in Christ. Jesus is Feeble.

Gina: How did he go from Jesus, or man, to an angel? An angel is a different created being.

Ken: The Last supper started at Sunset, Jesus had been up all day, Now the day of the cross starts, and it will go on till about 4:20 pm. when Jesus dies, that figures with 70 years of a 1,000 year day, Jesus is Adam, alive 930 years, dead or desolate as Jerusalem 70 years. Figuring 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness with sunrise at 6am. Jewish day is not like our way of telling time.

Gina: Yes, this is part of some older Mormon teachings...Jesus as Adam. Please give the scriptures for this, as vague mathematics and the adoption of false teachings from religions that aren't Christianity fail to prove this.

Ken: Gina, Job 33:27/28 is for the day of the cross. Judas is the one repenting. Read the prior verses, it is Jesus on the cross and the one called the good thief standing up for Him. Jesus could get a pardon in Jeremiah 5:1 if one stood for Him so it is seen "I have found a Ransom."

Gina: Ken, Job is not Judas or Jesus either, and the poetry of Job is not a reference to Jesus on the cross. Have you studied the book of Job for yourself, or are you going off of things you may have heard from someone somewhere along the line?

Ken: I am saying the Devil is God's Holy name, I am saying Judas is Michael fighting with the Devil is the battle on the mount of Olives. I can show this scripturally quite close, seeing God speaks in Similitudes, and through Jesus in parables. Most of this is already on the post "Is the Devil real" on this board.

Gina: I am saying that you are an enemy of Christ, that you are spewing out false doctrine and teachings and trampling on the Holy name of the Lord and Saviour.
Can I ask who you are associated with? Do you have a denom or are you on your own here?
Do you believe in Jesus, and in heaven and hell, and do you believe that you are a sinner in need of Grace, and if so, who gives that grace and how do you define and describe him?

 

[ken1burton]

DNK.

All Blaspheme? Can you Scripturally prove it? Start with the Lord hissing in Isaiah 7:18, Try the Holy Spirit coming down at Pentecost as CLOVEN TONGUES of fire. Don't forget the Lord devouring like a Lion in Hosea 13:8. His roaring in Psalms 22:1. The Lord in Adversity when the people are gathered together in Psalms 35:15.

Go for the Blind and dumb man in Matthew 12:22 possessed with a Devil, then explain Exodus 4:11 where God says in a question posed that He makes the Blind and Dumb. Include Isaiah 45:11 where God gives the authority to be commanded concerning the works of His Hands.

Go for Jesus being taken without His concent, or did He have to cast himself down to be taken? Go for having short time when He took the sin of the World, Explain how the sin of the world does not include having great wrath.

Those are just starters. Try using the Word of God. Not what you think, but what you can show Scripturally.

Gina.

Jesus is the Lilly of the Valley. The Second picture seen as Jesus dead in hell is the VALLEY. Those in hell rose with Jesus.

(ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)

(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)

Those that died in Jerusalem rose with Jesus, those that had died from Carmel, rose with Jesus, those that had died as Sharon, ROSE with Jesus, He is the ROSE OF SHARON. God speaks in Similitudes, in Parables, and in Dark sentences.

(SOLOMON 2:1) I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys. (KJV)

(SOLOMON 6:2) My beloved is gone down into his garden, to the beds of spices, to feed in the gardens, and to gather lilies. (KJV)

Jesus went into hell to gather the people.

You mentioned before what I would do in the Song of Solomon. Apply those verses to the concepts also.

(SOLOMON 4:1) Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead. (KJV)

Hair as a flock of Goats.

(SOLOMON 4:2) Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them. (KJV)

Teeth as a flock of sheep.

This is the Face of a man drawn in Scripture that appears from Sunrise to noon. The third beast with 6-wings has the face of a man. Plucking the Hairs from Christ's face during this time period SEPARATES THE SHEEP FROM THE GOATS.

The Goats are the 144 with Judas seen as a wall in Revelation 21:17. Multiplied by 1,000 in Deuteronomy 1:11. All the HAIRS of His head are numbered, 144,000 hairs, not one more, not one less.

Nubuchadnezzar is cast out till 7 times pass over Him. His Hairs become as FEATHERS, and His nails (in His hands) become as Claws. Noon to sunset, the fourth beast with 6-wings as a flying eagle as Jesus commends His spirit unto God. Also as a sparrow ALONE on the housetop. End times=Let Him that is on the Housetop not come down to take any thing out of His house. As the Priests ask Jesus to come down that they might see and believe. Jesus has to stay on the cross till death.

Gina "A Goat without blemish is also acceptable", Correct, But a GOAT can also be a Passover Lamb, and the Lamb of God is a GOAT.

(ZECHARIAH 10:3) Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the Lord of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle. (KJV)

Jesus as well as the 144 with Judas are GOATS. Seen as if they are not cast off in 10:6

(ZECHARIAH 10:6) And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the Lord their God, and will hear them. (KJV)

Contridicting myself? Naw. The Curse in 2Kings is refering to Manasseh. God pours out His spirit (Jesus) upon all flesh. God can refer to Jesus by any name. As all the curses in the book are placed on Jesus because they are caused by the sin He has taken upon Himself.

What God says He will do to Manasseh, to Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, or whoever, all falls upon Jesus. Manasseh was cursed, Jerusalem was cursed, The EARTH was cursed, Jesus is made everything cursed so God's words are fulfilled the day of the cross and made TRUTH.

Deuteronomy 29:20 is refering to Jesus, He has the sin of Idolatry also. God can not just place all iniquity on Jesus, the curses are the result of that iniquity and goes with it.

Gina: "Under heaven is on earth."

NO, His days are made as heaven. The heavens bowed at the PRESENCE of God. So heaven is on earth as Jesus was on earth. When Jesus died for sin the heavens had no light for Jesus was in hell.

The day of the cross is as 4 6-hour periods. There are 4 names for those time periods for Jesus.

(EXODUS 3:15) And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (KJV)

The first from Sunset to Midnight Jesus is the Lord God of God almighty. Midnight to Sunrise He is the God of Abraham, Jesus is Abraham, the horror of great darkness is when Jesus took sin. Sunrise to noon. Jesus is the God of Isaac, noon to sunset the God of Jacob. "For ever" is the day of the cross, a day taken out of time. "for ever and ever" is the day of the cross and everlasting future.

Noon to Sunset Jesus is Jacob, Wrestles with a man is Jesus has to allow Himself to die. He does. then Esau comes. Esau is Edom. Edom is a desolate wilderness or the time Jesus is dead, God hated Esau or the time Jesus had to be dead.

(JOEL 3:19) Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land. (KJV)

Jesus just died for future sins, past and present sin then were healed by His stripes. With sin ended we are on HOLY GROUND, Get rid of the SHOES.

(PSALMS 60:8) Moab is my washpot; over Edom will I cast out my shoe: Philistia, triumph thou because of me. (KJV)

Philistia a similitude for HELL.

(ISAIAH 14:31) Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. (KJV)

God changes the SPELLING all the time. God multiplies Similitudes, so He has to have each one a little different. Isaiah chapter 14 is looking at hell. and 14:31 is looking at it ceasing to exist, which is on the third day.

The Rich man is in Abraham's bosom. Which is in the Body of Christ already the day of the cross, Now Jesus has to get to those in hell. He has to die a sinner to get there. so He takes Future sins, makes the tree evil by choice, gets the keys to death and hell all people dying a sinner got. (ended with Jesus as sin ends=Dan 9:24). Goes into hell, Making His grave with the rich and the wicked. Then bears evil fruit of gets them all out.

(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)

(ISAIAH 53:9) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. (KJV)

(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)

The day of the cross is made as 3 pictures, as days, Jesus raises on the Third day. What is needed to explain. The dead rose with Jesus THEN. These are PROPHECIES. All the Things written by the prophets were accomplished when Jesus went up to Jerusalem to offer Himself a living Sacrifice for sin. Not some future event, but the day of the cross.

(ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)

The 1,000 year reign of Christ was the day of the cross, the rest of the dead lived not again till the thousand years was over=Second day.

(REVELATION 20:5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (KJV)

Gina, the people on this board with Study are not putting much Scripture into the reproofs, just personal beliefs. Your the first one to really go for it, and I thank you for doing it.

God is our FATHER, Jesus called God, Father. Why would it seem strange to see Jesus as our Brother. The blood of every man slain was to be required at the hand of "Every man's Brother." That could only be fulfilled by one Person. Jesus paying for sin. Jesus is the ELECT, Jesus is Jerusalem. Jerusalem likened to God's wife. God seen married in Ezekiel 16:8. that is Jesus dead in the grave.

The day of the cross is seen as 3 pictures. The four beasts in Daniel are seen as the Lord in Hosea 13:7/8. The Bear in Daniel has 3 ribs in His mouth. That is God's words spoken as 3 pictures. One of the Ribs God makes into a woman. Jesus is ADAM the day of the cross. Devouring much flesh is to consume all into the Body of Christ.

(HOSEA 13:7) Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them: (KJV)
(HOSEA 13:8) I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them. (KJV)

(DANIEL 7:5) And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. (KJV)

The day of the cross is looked at from different directions, looking backwards makes the last to be first and the first to be last. The leopard is the third in Daniel looking backwards at the day. But the second in Hosea.

(JEREMIAH 13:23) Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. (KJV)

The leopard has not changed spots, just directions seen by. The Ethiopian is the third time period, the third beast with six wings is the Black horse.

(JOEL 2:6) Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness. (KJV)

The fourth time period is the Pale horse, death followed by hell as Jesus dies from noon to sunset and descends into hell.

(JEREMIAH 30:6) Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? (KJV)

The Body of Christ born the day of the cross as all faces turn to Paleness. The Woman is the nation of Israel. She Loses her seed, and Mischief follows as the day as 3 pictures is 1=iniquity, 2=mischief, 3=falsehood.

(PSALMS 7:14) Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. (KJV)

(EXODUS 21:22) If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. (KJV)
(EXODUS 21:23) And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, (KJV)
(EXODUS 21:24) Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, (KJV)

The day seen again, The day is all the sevens in the book of Revelation. The Lamb has seven eyes, so now we see the day again with seven eyes. God doubles twice to establish His words as truth.

(GENESIS 41:32) And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass. (KJV)

That is why the day of the cross had to be seen as 3 pictures. That is how God establishes His words as Truth. First as 4 6-hour periods, then seen as 2 12-hour periods then seen as 1 24-hour period.

Gina. Many people killed another and died before ever being punished. God is saying every one will be punished, every murder will be paid for, none would get away. Jesus paying in full paid for ever one that was killed. Clearing the entire slate. Even the Beasts had to be paid for. So Jesus is likened to a lion. to a lamb. A four footed animal is a beast.

The City New Jerusalem is the Body of Christ where we dwell. There are 144 around Jesus seen as a wall in Rev 21:17. They are the ones with Judas. Made 1,000 times more then they are by Deu 1:11 they are the 144,000. The law required the Camps to be around the Ark. Jesus is the Ark, Three tribes to a camp. "Every several gate was ONE PEARL" or one camp. The length, height and breadth are equal. All three pictures are 24 hours.

Jesus is the Street. The day as 7 time periods is seen as Silver tried in the fire 7 times, seen as 3 pictures are as Gold. The Streets of gold is because they are seen as three pictures.

(ISAIAH 51:23) But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over. (KJV)

(ISAIAH 11:16) And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt. (KJV)

The day of the cross as 3 pictures: 1=Egypt. 2=Israel, 3=Assyria. When Jesus dies on the cross in the first picture. We are converted as children by Jeremiah 4:22. "When Israel was a child, THEN I loved Him, and Called My Son out of Egypt". Fulfilled as Jesus comends His spirit unto God from the Cross. All prophecies are for the day of the cross, Every one of them.

(ZECHARIAH 9:9) Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. (KJV)

Not Palm Sunday. Jesus starts the day of the cross out as a prince. Goes to the cross as a King.

(GENESIS 49:11) Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: (KJV)

(JOB 11:12) For vain man would be wise, though man be born like a wild ass's colt. (KJV)

This is to bind Jesus to the Birth of mankind to God the day of the cross. Immanuel, God with us as Jesus takes away the sin of the world. This is Jesus coming in on the birth of mankind to God.

(PSALMS 2:6) Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (KJV)
(PSALMS 2:7) I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee. (KJV)

Jesus is the BRIDE seen in Scripture. The Marriage of the Lamb seen in Revelation is Jesus married as a bride to God as the Husband. A Similitude.

(ISAIAH 62:5) For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee. (KJV)

This shows Jesus likened to a FEMALE. This is because the Second picture (rib in the bear's mouth) has Jesus as a female. The Wedding with God and Jesus is when Jesus is dead and in the Sepulchre. Dressed in the Fine linen wrapped around His dead body.

(REVELATION 19:7) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. (KJV)
(REVELATION 19:8) And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. (KJV)

"Him" and "His" in Revelation 19:7 is not for Jesus but for God the Father. Jesus is the "WIFE"

Not confused at all Gina. Revelation is the day of the cross seen as 7 time periods, all the sevens are the same thing. John is in the Spirit on the Lord's day. Which is the day of the cross. These things were given to Jesus, to show unto His servants. So they had to be shown to the Disciples as SERVANTS before the day of the cross when we are NO LONGER CALLED SERVANTS

(JOHN 15:15) Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. (KJV)

(REVELATION 1:1) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (KJV)

This start is JOHN the BAPTIST.

(REVELATION 1:2) Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. (KJV)

John bearing witness Jesus is the Son of God by seeing the Dove coming down on Jesus.

(REVELATION 1:3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (KJV)

Not time is to come, but at hand for this is the day of the cross that is being looked at.

(REVELATION 1:4) John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; (KJV)

Here is the Apostle John starting. the seven spirits is the day of the cross as 7 time periods. as 4 beasts with 6-wings, as 2 witnesses and as 24 elders, or the day as 1 24-hour picture.

The 144 cubits would make a Short wall in the city New Jerusalem???

(REVELATION 21:16) And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. (KJV)
(REVELATION 21:17) And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. (KJV)

This is seen as the wall of the City. 144 cubits. Let me go back in another verse.

(REVELATION 21:16) And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. (KJV)

The City seems to be far outside the wall. 12,000 FURLONGS.

The City wall would be 216 feet long. that is what 144 cubits is. 12,000 furlongs I believe would be about 175 miles. The 12,000 furlongs is a hint the 144, or 12 out of eah tribe is made 1,000 times so many more then they are.

Deuteronomy 1:11 is a event to happen later, a Prophecy. it is for the day of the cross when all prophecies are fulfilled. Not one jot or tittle would pass till all are fulfilled, all fulfilled the day of the cross.

(PSALMS 91:7) A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. (KJV)

The Disciples made 1,000 times so many more then they are. 10 flee from the first time period which is the "Right hand" and Peter falls at His side. Notice only 11 seen as falling. Judas not seen as falling. As God doubles twice, this is also seen in Daniel, but not as falling so Judas is also seen here.

(DANIEL 7:10) A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. (KJV)

Peter is the Little Horn speaking great things.

(DANIEL 7:11) I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. (KJV)

Beheld till Jesus was slain on the cross. To see if Peter would deny Jesus or not.

God made a Covenant with the Levites that they and they alone were to be the priests. That covenant was broken IF the Covenant with Day and Night could be broken. I showed how in Scripture the day of the cross is likened to the BIRTH of Christ, How it is cursed in Job and taken out of time. How the taking out of time of this day ends the covenant with the Levites and now with no Levitical coveant, Jesus and Jesus alone is the High Priest.

The Book of Job is the day of the cross, Job has 7 sons, the day as 7 time periods, Job has 3 daughters, the day as 3 pictures. The Wind comes out of the WILDERNESS (Whose House have I made a wilderness?) and Smites the four corners of the House, Which is the day as 4 6-hour periods.

(PSALMS 40:7) Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (KJV)

Job cursed the Day of His Birth, that is for the day of the cross for the Birth of the Body of Christ. Seen also in Jeremiah.

(JEREMIAH 20:14) Cursed be the day wherein I was born: let not the day wherein my mother bare me be blessed. (KJV)
(JEREMIAH 20:15) Cursed be the man who brought tidings to my father, saying, A man child is born unto thee; making him very glad. (KJV)

(JOB 3:3) Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived. (KJV)

(JOB 33:14) For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. (KJV)

Add the Cubit, reach angel status to go where men perceiveth not.

A Jumble? Verses that do not go together? They are verses written in God's word. They better go together in some context.

Stop it is not a consideration. God said to Speak, even to shout. The same thing was told to the Disciples.

(ACTS 5:28) Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. (KJV)
(ACTS 5:29) Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. (KJV)

If you can prove this is not truth, then say "STOP", But prove it Scripturally first.

I live in Ilion, NY. God and Jesus dwells here also. This is part of Omni-present. Revelation has been fulfilled. it is the day of the cross.

Are these next two verse so hard they can not be seen as the day of the cross for Jesus?

(JOHN 15:1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. (KJV)

(REVELATION 14:19) And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (KJV)

The Wrath of God fell on Jesus went He took the sin of the World. The Wine of the Wrath of God is the Blood of Christ.

(REVELATION 14:20) And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. (KJV)

(JOHN 19:17) And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: (KJV)

(MATTHEW 23:35) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. (KJV)

1600 furlongs would have blood cover all of Israel from Jerusalem, (upon You)

Moderators playing a joke? I don't think so.

Judas did repent, that is Scriptural. And seeing Jewish law would have had the priests take him and put him to death, He would not have done that unless he was serious. As far as why the Disciples would not keep Judas, instead of having him go unto his own place. Ask them when you see them in Heaven. I assume they did not get "Love thy enemy down pat." But Even Jesus did not see Judas as a enemy.

(PSALMS 55:12) For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him: (KJV)
(PSALMS 55:13) But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance. (KJV)

Judas is a man Christ's equal. AS GOD"S WORD SAYS.

(REVELATION 1:5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (KJV)

Jesus as a PRINCE. He is King's David's son that died 7 days old, reborn 1,000 years later the First begotten of the Dead as a PRINCE, He went to the cross (Psalsm 2:6) as a King.

(DANIEL 10:21) But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. (KJV)

Michael, a Prince, and the only one who was holden with Jesus. and that is because Judas is doing the will of God.

(ZECHARIAH 11:13) And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord. (KJV)

Who is directing Judas? "Kiss the Son lest He be angry.", Who is fulfilling Scripture?

(DEUTERONOMY 13:6) If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; (KJV)
(DEUTERONOMY 13:7) Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; (KJV)
(DEUTERONOMY 13:8) Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: (KJV)
(DEUTERONOMY 13:9) But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. (KJV)

They covered Christ's head as one smote Him. They asked who it was. Judas had to be the first to strike Jesus. Under the LAW.

Jesus was going to serve other gods, they were the gods of wood and stone. The Cross and the Sepulchre.

(DEUTERONOMY 4:28) And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. (KJV)

One of the many curses because of sin.

Why the Bounceing around?, Because this is God's inspired word. And God uses similitudes, and three pictures so He shows things over and over as the pictures are seen again.

(GENESIS 7:7) And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. (KJV)
(GENESIS 7:8) Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, (KJV)
(GENESIS 7:9) There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. (KJV)
(GENESIS 7:10) And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. (KJV)

OK, They are in the Ark, The people and the animals, and the waters of the flood are upon the Earth. Consider these events as happened. now go on to the next verses.

(GENESIS 7:11) In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. (KJV)
(GENESIS 7:12) And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. (KJV)
(GENESIS 7:13) In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; (KJV)

??? what is this reloading the ARK about? or is the day as three pictures and this is seeing the Second. The Second day for the day of the cross is seeing Jesus in hell. To continue:

(GENESIS 7:14) They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. (KJV)
(GENESIS 7:15) And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. (KJV)
(GENESIS 7:16) And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in. (KJV)

SHUT IN, SHUT IN, SHUT IN. This was not seen in the First picture, but is seen in the Second picture, NOTE, And the Lord shut """HIM""" in. Not shut THEM in.

Seeing Judas is still alive in Acts, the hanging Himself and His bowels gusing out have to be ways to describe confession. He is still alive then.

(ACTS 1:25) That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. (KJV)

"Might go" is a act of movement. Judas is still alive. He might not go to his own place, but they sure want him to go somewhere else.

Jesus in the Sepulchre has a fine linen sheet around Him. That is also when Jesus is seen married to God. He is the Lamb, He is the wife, He is arrayed in fine linen.

He is not to leave the field (Sepulchre in the garden) to take up His clothes. That is end time prophecy. He does not have any clothes. He is to stay in the Sepulchre till the third day.

(MATTHEW 24:18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. (KJV)

Now we move to the third day. Mary did not see Jesus in the linen cloth, But she mistook Jesus for the Gardener. A gardener would have more then likely worn rags at that time of history. Where would Jesus get the clothes? they must have been in the garden, that is why Mary thought Jesus was the Gardener.

Jesus had the power to take up His life. He could have done that on the second day, But He had to be WITH them in hell to be raised on the third day. And that to be set free by God. He could not leave early because He had the power to do it. He had to wait. and remember He is in the grave THEN.

(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)

He raises them up on the third day:

(ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)

He has to raise them up WITH HIMSELF, and that on the third day.

(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)

God has to send them Forth, Jesus is the "AS FOR THEE ALSO. So Jesus has to still be with them on the third day as God send Jesus and those with Him out of hell on the third day. The Rich man wanted water to cool His tongue=in hell.

When Peter did deny Jesus, it fulfilled one of many prophecies. And the day of the cross, all prophecies are fulfilled.

(LUKE 18:31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (KJV)

Jesus is also a PROPHET, He foretold what would happen. That also had to be fulfilled the day of the cross.

(MATTHEW 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (KJV)
(MATTHEW 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (KJV)

The day of the cross is as 7 time periods. The first from sunset to Midnight is OLD HEAVEN (Kingdom of Heaven) The Second is Old EArth from Midnight to sunrise. (Kingdom of Earth)

(NEHEMIAH 9:22) Moreover thou gavest them kingdoms and nations, and didst divide them into corners: so they possessed the land of Sihon, and the land of the king of Heshbon, and the land of Og king of Bashan. (KJV)

The day of the cross as 4 6-hour periods is as the four corners of the Earth. As KINGDOMS.

Jesus is the Kingdom, and the Disciples are fleeing.

(MATTHEW 10:33) But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. (KJV)

(MATTHEW 26:73) And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 26:74) Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew. (KJV)

(LUKE 22:60) And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew. (KJV)
(LUKE 22:61) And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. (KJV)

Peter denied Jesus, and Jesus denied Peter by not saying Peter was a disciple.

That rotten little stool pigeon, or was it a Rooster? or was it a Prophecy?

(ECCLESIASTES 10:20) Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter. (KJV)

Inspired stool pigeon, which told Jesus what had happened and Jesus looked upon Peter, knowing Peter had cursed Him in his thoughts.

All prophecies are for the day of the cross. Every one of them has to be fulfilled. The Disciples saying "Lord, Lord" are the ones seen by their wording in response to Jesus turning them away.

(MATTHEW 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (KJV)
(LUKE 13:26) Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. (KJV)
(LUKE 13:27) But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. (KJV)

Remember when this takes place, the Disciples are fighting with Swords those that have come to take Jesus, Take Him by the foreknowledge of God.

The day of the cross FULFILLS all Prophecies, God said He would Scatter, and God said He would Gather. The Different time periods fulfill different prophecies. that is what the keywords are all about. Using them to see where God places what He is doing in the different pictures.

Wisdom is seeing the day of the cross as 7 time periods.
Understanding is seeing the day of the cross made as three pictures.
Knowledge is putting the pieces in the right order.

(PROVERBS 9:1) Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars: (KJV)

(PROVERBS 24:3) Through wisdom is an house builded; and by understanding it is established: (KJV)
(PROVERBS 24:4) And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches. (KJV)

There are many things God shows in Prophecies that are not recorded as events in the New Testament. It does not show Jesus saying "Depart from Me, Ye workers of Iniquity." But God did show it in the parables of what would happen.

Do you think the Disciples wanted to show that to the world? Here is another almost well kept secret for the day of the cross.

To drink blood was a abomination to a Jew. Strickly forbidden by God's law through Moses. When Jesus told the Disciples the Wine was His blood. They started a chain reaction. They vomited all over the tables. Learn to look at what you do not find pleasant. there is where God hides things.

(LEVITICUS 7:26) Moreover ye shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings. (KJV)
(LEVITICUS 7:27) Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people. (KJV)

(SOLOMON 5:3) I have put off my coat; how shall I put it on? I have washed my feet; how shall I defile them? (KJV)

(How about a little blood, that will defile them under the law)

(ISAIAH 28:8) For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. (KJV)
(ISAIAH 28:9) Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. (KJV)

The day of the cross is made as 7 days or time periods:

(ISAIAH 30:26) Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the Lord bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. (KJV)

This has to be the day of the cross as they are healed then.

God uses His own words to bear witness. He makes His words into 3 pictures of a 24 hour day.

First picture is as 4 6-hour periods or 4 beasts with 6-wings. Seen as the 4 corners of the earth, the 4 winds. the first 4 days of Genesis. all the first fours in the book of Revelation.

Second picture for the day is as 2 12-hour periods. As 2 witnesses, as the heaven and the earth, as the vision of the evening and morning. Because God doubles twice, each of the days will also be divided into 7 days, so the second picture or 2 witnesses are seen dead three days and a half, or half a week for each of them. Revived when fulfilled in Truth the day of the cross.

Third picture is the day as a full 24 hour period. Seen as 24 Elders in Revelation. This is the day that the lord has Made. All prophecies are fulfilled this day. all of God's words come together then.

Because the creation story is a similitude. all similitudes are for the day of the cross. Taking the first picture as 4 6-hour periods. The first day in Genesis is Sunset to Midnight. "Let there be Light" as the Last Supper starts and Jesus pours out the light to them.

John was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, which is John is seeing visions for the day of the cross. That is what the Spirit is showing John.

What happens in Genesis is seen by looking to the day of the cross and comparing them.

first day=Sunset to Midnight.
Second day=Midnight to sunrise.
Third day=Sunrise to noon
Fourth day=Noon to Sunset, This is the MIDST of the Week
Fifth day is Sunset to Sunrise, (evening)
Sixth day is Sunrise to Sunset (morning)
Seventh day is Sunset to Sunset. Last Supper till Just after Jesus was placed in the Sepulchre.

God also uses keywords to show the day as 7 time periods and as three pictures, using them show where God is speaking about.

(ISAIAH 41:19) I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together: (KJV)

Seven types of Trees. The cedar is sunset to Midnight, place what is being said linked to the cedar tree there. The Second picture seen as Jesus in hell, no waters, so the firth tree likened to in a desert.

With Revelation showing many of the sevens, here is how they go together. Red horse is the second seal. Midnight to Sunrise.

(ZECHARIAH 1:8) I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white. (KJV)

Midnight to Sunrise is NIGHT. He is RIDING or moving. The Myrtle trees is the third in Isaiah 41:19. The rider has gone from the second to the third time period. now He looks back. He sees the red horses of the second, the white horses of the first, and the speckled is both the first two seen together. So when you see a SPECKLED BIRD, that is the first two time periods together.

The Second beast with 6-wings has the face like a calf. Add the red horse to get a Red Heifer. Jesus is the Head of the first 6-hours, He is the Tail of the Second 6-hours. The Red heifer had to be BEHEADED, God's Word like as a fire, Ashes of the red heifer that is needed to cleans the house.

All of the prophecies in Daniel are Fulfilled the day of the cross. Even Daniel's 70th week. He makes a end of the Daily Sacrifice in the Midst of the week= the fourth time period from noon to sunset.

The consumation is all mankind consumes into the body of Christ in Righteousness.

The Trumpet happened the day of the cross as Jesus cries out at death, the book of Revelation is looking at the day of the cross.

Jesus descended into hell, made His grace with the rich and the wicked, that is where they were, those are the ones with Jesus set free in Zechariah 9:11.

Jesus was on OUR side of the Veil, He was not in the Holy of Holies. When the veil ripped, there is no longer any thing that separated us from GOD. Sin was the separation. We have the Righteousness of Jesus on us from Job 33:36. He took away sin, We need no intercessor. He opened and no man shutteth. He did not make a access to God, He joined mankind to God. Sin or the veil was eliminated.

We were all saved at Calvary. That is where Jeremiah 4:19/23 is showing. "ALL THINGS written concering the Son of Man is Accomplished" and Jeremiah 4:19/23 concerns the Son of Man and what would happen to Him. That is Calvary. That is the Rapture. The falling away first is the Disciples and people fleeing. man of sin is Jesus with the sin of the world, sits upon the Throne of God, showing Himself to Be God. Exaulting Himself above all that is CALLED CALLED CALLED God, not what is God.

Jeremiah 4:23 follows 4:22. that is the Death of Jesus, That is the Earth void and without form. that is the dead body of Jesus, this is the BEGINNING. This is the BEGINNING of our New World. Ending of the Old World. Creation story is looking at the day of the cross. At the Beginning. He declareth the End from the BEGINNING=It is finished. Here the House of David seen in Zechariah 12:8 is AS GOD.
Jesus the son of David raised to be the Son of God. The day of the cross when all is fulfilled. "This day have I begotten Thee."

As the day is the birth of the Body of Christ, that is what the rest of the chapter leads to.

(JEREMIAH 4:31) For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers. (KJV)

Jesus is AS GOD, The day of the Cross Jesus is God. Made One with God as in a marriage. God speaks in similitudes.

(HOSEA 12:10) I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets. (KJV)

Jesus when He dies is as a ANGEL, a DEAD PERSON. A Child when they die is a Angel, The Dead child is beholding God's face in their angel form, not a angel doing it for the child.

(MATTHEW 18:10) Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. (KJV)

As far as a angel being a different created being, That is just a status. add the cubit and reach angel status. Top level for a man is to lay down His life for a friend. (greater love has no MAN then this). Go beyond that and reach angel status. then you can find that which no man can find out. Start with finding "OUT", Then go BEYOND finding OUT.

(JOHN 15:22) If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. (KJV)

Sin entered by ONE MAN. And Jesus is that man. Jesus is Adam the day of the cross a Similitude. The day as Generations, the day as 7 days or Generations, Jesus as Enoch the Seventh is taken to GOD.
"Into Thy hands I commend My Spirit."

Garden of Eden is the day of the cross as a river divided into 4 heads. first as 4 6-hour periods.

Job is looking at Jesus the day of the cross. I show what God has showed me. Not what others have written.

(JOB 38:4) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. (KJV)

On a Cross outside Jerusalem, the Lamb is slain from the Foundation of the World. Which is the Beginning.

(JOB 38:9) When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, (KJV)

Clouds seen as sin in Isaiah 44:22.
(ISAIAH 44:22) I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. (KJV)

(JOB 38:10) And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, (KJV)

I will declare the DECREE, this day have I begotten Thee. Psa 2:6/7

(JOB 38:13) That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

I will cry unto Thee from the ends of the EARTH when My heart is overwhelmed. Jesus is the earth, cry is at death. (Psa 61:1/2)

(JOB 38:16) Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? (KJV)

Thy Judgments are a great deep (Psa 36:6) DEPTHS OF SATAN.

(JOB 38:17) Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death? (KJV)

The day of the cross shows this rather well.

(JOB 38:19) Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, (KJV)

Let that day be darkness. Let there be light, all for the day of the cross.
(JOB 38:21) Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great? (KJV)

Happy Birthday dear Jesus. Thou was born the day of the cross. The Body of Christ now is with us. Happy Birth day to You, (Us)

Job is God speaking to Jesus.

(PSALMS 40:7) Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (KJV)

I came to God, God showed me Jesus. I came into belief as many others. Baptised in a Baptist church. Believing many of what they call sound doctrine. But bing hungry for God's word. I read and I read, and I was finding what the Church was telling me, and what God's word was telling me was very different. God won out. I believed Him. And I started searching each concept till I knew if it was truth, and why it was truth.

I do not mind being called a enemy of Christ. (He loves His enemies you know. or don't you know that?) Even being called an enemy of Jesus is not a problem. It is a blessing. and Jesus told me it comes with the territory.

(MATTHEW 5:11) Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 5:12) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. (KJV)

Comes with the Territory.

Grace is the KEY.

Take God's Word:
(ISAIAH 53:6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (KJV)

Add some more of God's word:
(JOB 33:26) He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness. (KJV)

Now add the sum of the matter:
(DANIEL 9:24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (KJV)

Regardless of what I did believe, and the actions of those beliefs like repenting, etc. I know that Repentace is Hid from God's eyes. Sin has ended as accountable for mankind. Aldolf Hitler has the same righteousness of Christ on him that everyone else does, and none of us deserve it. Given to each of us as were were conceived. Then were we written in the Lamb's book of Life.

(JEREMIAH 23:29) {Is} not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer {that} breaketh the rock in pieces? (KJV)

To be immersed in God's Word is to be Baptised with fire, or as cast into the Lake of fire. This is the Second death which does not hurt the overcomers at Smyrna. the second of the seven churches in Revelation chapter 2 and 3. Seven messages are seven steps to God, Smyrna is the second step which is to believe. It will not hurt believers to be immersed in God's word like cast into a lake of fire. not one single bit.

To see the messages as steps to God, just look at what the overcomers get, Sixth is made a pillar in the temple of God, seventh get to sit with Jesus in His throne.

Those in hell were LUKEWARM. Spued out of His mouth (mouth of the Sepulchre) And sent forth as Arrows unto God. The Seventh message. Seen in Revelaiton as those out of great tribulation.

Thank you very much Gina. your respond was with a lot of effort.

ken1burton

 

[DHK]

Ken,
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Rev.19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Phil.2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus Christ is the Word. His name is called the Word of God. At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. There is no other name under Heaven given among whereby a man must be saved.

You say the "devil is God's holy name."
You say "Satan is a name for the Word of God."
You equate Satan with Jesus. Your posts are totally blasphemous. The verses that you post out of context are not worth answering. You are not a Baptist. Please tell us what you are. As Gina referred to you seem to speak with another spirit.
As for speaking in similitudes and allegories, as I have discussed with others I will plainly tell you, that when you allegorize Scripture as you do, you can make the Scripture say anything that you want to. And that is exactly what you do. You call white black and black white; good, evil, and evil, good. You call Satan Jesus. And just who is the beast in Revelation 13? Jesus?
The atheists, now banned from the board, had more logical and consistent arguments than you do.
At least they were honest and said they were not Christians.

1Cor.12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
DHK

 

[post-it]

So Ken, to sum up your post.

Judas was redeemed.

 

[ken1burton]

Post-it.

Judas was redeemed by the same grace we are. as all have fallen short. Hell ended the third day. Daniel 9:24 was fulfilled at Calvary. Jesus paid it all.

Daniel 9:24's making a end of sin and bringing in everlasting righteousness has a seal on that vision. A seal the Disciples and Paul never got past. A seal that reveals that all mankind is saved by grace.

DNK.

Nice to see Scripture verses. As Daniel 9:24 has a seal, would those that did not see sin end speak truth or what they believed was truth?

Jesus making a end of sin, and bringing in everlasting righteousness. Would that leave anyone UNSAVED? We were saved the day of the cross. That is when it ended. and Jesus was the one who paid for that salvation. We come to God through Jesus, what He did at Calvary.

As every prophecy is fulfilled the day of the cross. That would have to include "Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess." That was fulfilled at Calvary. Done in Mocking, but still done to fulfill the prophecy.

(ISAIAH 45:23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (KJV)

God speaks in similitudes, so it is not every person in the world to fulfill this but EVERY SOLDIER.

(MATTHEW 27:27) Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 27:28) And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 27:29) And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews! (KJV)

His days are as Heaven, and it started at Sunset to Midnight with the first seal, the White Horse. Jesus takes sin, seen as clouds in Isaiah 44:22. He has on many crowns. Seven heads and ten crowns to be exact. a beast is a Lamb. a beast is a lion the first of the four beasts with 6-wings.

His hair is as wool. The Goats seen in Song of Solomon is as His hair. Jesus in Job 25:6 is as a worm. Moth larve would be a better word, Consumes the Wool or the goats into the Body of Christ.

(ISAIAH 50:9) Behold, the Lord God will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up. (KJV)

(JOB 25:6) How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm? (KJV)

the beast in Revelation chapter 13, BOTH of them is Jesus, He is all the beasts. The eighth is the Scarlet coloured beast (Jesus covered with blood), He is of the seven, He is all seven seen together. Like seven days seen as a week instead of seven different days.

(REVELATION 13:1) And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. (KJV)
(REVELATION 13:2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. (KJV)

Cute little beast, isn't He. Like a Leopard, like a bear, like a lion. Cute as can be.

(HOSEA 13:7) Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them: (KJV)
(HOSEA 13:8) I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them. (KJV)

This is the LORD. This is also seen in Daniel, Backwards there. or looking at the day as 4 6-hour periods from the last to the first. Devours like a lion. Sound familiar?

(REVELATION 13:3) And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. (KJV)

The day as 7 days, as 7 heads. Jesus takes sin at Midnight, Spirituall dead, a head wounded to death. "With His stripes we are healed" in the third time period, that is where the deadly wound was healed. Then spirituall alive. Then He takes Future sins to Calvary.

(REVELATION 13:4) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? (KJV)

The Dragons are the time periods, the red dragon is Midnight to sunrise same as the second seal which is the red horse.

(REVELATION 13:5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (KJV)

Jesus is carried by the Spirit the day He was baptised to the day of the cross. Built as a house, named the WILDERNESS. Now Jesus is given 42 months to continue. As He does not know the Devil is God's Holy name, He speaks against God.

Gina.

I forgot one thing about "The Lord would not Pardon Manasseh."

Jesus is the one going for the Pardon. But, Jesus has the UNPARDONABLE Sin. He has to Die for sin.

Here is the Pardon offer Jesus is going for. He tried to get it by praying for Peter. Then He thought the one called the Good theif would get it for Him. Jesus needed one to stand up for Him.

(JEREMIAH 5:1) Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it. (KJV)

So in that poetry called Job:

(JOB 33:22) Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers. (KJV)

Jesus on the cross.

(JOB 33:23) If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: (KJV)
(JOB 33:24) Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. (KJV)

That is the one called the Good thief, saying Jesus was upright, not like them. So Jesus thinking He will get the pardon and not having to die for the future sins He took thinks He has found the Ransom. Saying "Today thou shalt be with Me in paradise" is because Jesus thinks He has avoided going into hell.

(MATTHEW 27:44) The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth. (KJV)

The one called the Good thief later reviled Jesus, ending the chance for a pardon.

(PSALMS 142:4) I looked on my right hand, and beheld, but there was no man that would know me: refuge failed me; no man cared for my soul. (KJV)

The one called the good thief on Christ's right hand now will not know Jesus, REFUGE has failed. No Pardon for Jesus (Manasseh)

Jesus tries one more shot at not dying for future sins. He forgives others.

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Remember the "If you forgive others their trespasses, Your heavenly Father will forgive yours."?

This did not work either.

Jesus has the sins of the World upon Himself, there is NOTHING God can forgive them for. Jesus is regarding iniquity in His heart. He sees them guilty and therefore forgave them. They are not guilty of anything, all iniquity is on Jesus. As Jesus is regarding iniquity in His heart, God will not hear Him. He has to die with the future sins belonging to Himself.

(PSALMS 66:18) If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (KJV)

(ISAIAH 22:14) And it was revealed in mine ears by the Lord of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die, saith the Lord God of hosts. (KJV)

Jesus has the Unpardonable sin. He has to die with sin.

(DEUTERONOMY 24:16) The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (KJV)

And the sin has to belong to Jesus when He is put to death. They are His OWN sin. The Devil is God's Holy name, this is the Beginning, and Jesus is the commiter of all sins in the eyes of God, He is a murder from the beginning. Which is Calvary.

All the prophecies are lies till they are fulfilled, this is the Lying spirit God sent in 1-Kings. The Similitude is for Jesus to go up and die in battle to establish God's word as truth. Not truth till they are fulfilled as being seen as 3 pictures.

(1KINGS 22:20) And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. (KJV)
(1KINGS 22:21) And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him. (KJV)
(1KINGS 22:22) And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. (KJV)
(1KINGS 22:23) Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. (KJV)

The Father of lies is the Father of the prophecies seen as lies till they are fulfilled the day of the cross. The Truth was not in Him in John 8:44 because the day of the cross had not yet happened.

ken1burton

 

[Gina B]

Ken, I'm going to try to bring a measure of sanity to all this, because the replies so far have been pretty unorganized.
I'm trying to work on a number of boards between thunderstorms, so if I have to stop short I'll be back.

Ok, on Judas.
Matthew 27:2-5 And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor. Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Note that it speaks of his death. I don't know where you're coming up with a confession instead of this meaning he committed suicide, especially if you truly believe that the chief priests told him to kill himself because they didn't want to(which wasn't their law anyhow, they weren't allowed to carry out death sentences on their own).
How many disciples does this leave left?
Mt 28:16
Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

Mr 16:14
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Lu 24:9
And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.

Lu 24:33
And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,

Judas wasn't there.
On the disciple Jesus loved.
Given his deep state of repentance you claim he had, would he have stood at the cross with Mary and watched Jesus crucified? (not that I believe he was still alive, but since you're saying he was, look at these verses).
John 19:26-27 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

On the world as it is being the Kindgom of Jesus, which means that the prophecies in Revelation are already fulfilled.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
The Kingdom of Christ on earth is not set up yet, nor is the Kingdom spoken of in Revelation Jesus, or He would have fought to defend it. He didn't.
Gina

 

[Walguy]

I'm not going to get deeply involved with this, but the question about the identity of 'The Disciple Jesus Loved' is pretty obvious. Look at John 21:20-24.

Peter turned and saw following them the disciple whom Jesus loved, who had lain close to his breast at the supper and had said, "Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?" When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "Lord, what about this man?" Jesus said to him, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? Follow me!" The saying spread abroad among the brethren that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?" This is the disciple who is bearing witness to these things, and who has written these things; and we know that his testimony is true. (emphasis mine)

Since the name of the book this is taken from is "The Gospel According to JOHN," the question is definitively settled, is it not? If the 'Disciple Jesus Loved' was Judas, the fourth book of the NT would be "The Gospel According to Judas."
Game and set, Walguy.