Did Paul not get it?

[James_Newman]

Bob, your theology is a mess. It's a free gift that you have to work for. You have to run to recieve the prize, but if you don't win the free gift you were never really in the race. When will you realize that dead people don't run?

 

[xdisciplex]

The problem is simply that I cannot make all these different verses harmonizes with each other. Some sound very much like OSAS others don't. I find it impossible to bring them all together.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The bible says it's a gift. But a gift cannot be earned then it's not a gift anymore.

 

[BobRyan]

You can not bend the Bible "enough" to insert OSAS into every text no matter how much wrenching of the text it takes. It will simply wear you out.

As you already noticed in 1Cor 9, the same holds true in Matt 18, in Matt 7, in Romans 2, in Romans 11, in Ezek 18, in 2Tim 2 .. the list just keeps going and going and going.

Better to just accept the Bible as it reads and dump OSAS.

Once you do that - it all fits.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
Bob, your theology is a mess. It's a free gift that you have to work for. You have to run to recieve the prize, but if you don't win the free gift you were never really in the race. When will you realize that dead people don't run?

I suppose it is "fun" to pretend that "Bob wrote 1 Cor 9" instead of actually responding to the "detailed exegetically sound review" on 1Cor 9 already posted here.

I don't blame you for taking that approach - since as I already said - it is far too time consiuming and exhuasting to have to "undo all of scripture just to make OSAS FIT".

In the mean time - I prefer the "lazy way" - the one that does NOT need to bend-wrench-and-twist text after text trying to get "OSAS to fit".

Paul does not say "I must run AND THEN after running I WILL be born again WILL have assurance" - HE STARTS with the born again, saved experience BUT THEN he says in 1Cor 9 what your OSAS view will not allow!!

And that is the "obvious" point being raised in the OP!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[James_Newman]

1 Corinthians 9:24-27
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keepunder my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Do you really suppose the Apostle Paul is speaking of losing his salvation? You would have a better argument if you did think that, but you say that if a person is not working, they were never saved to begin with. Could an unsaved man get direct revelation from the Lord, and yet find himself to be a false believer?

Perhaps what he is working for is a crown. That is what he said isn't it. An incorruptible crown. Lest he should be a castaway.

Matthew 13:47-48
47 Again,the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

But they shall still be saved, yet so as by fire.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Two options.

Option one --
Get a ticket and then you don't have to worry - you are "in" no matter what you do or think.

(the problem with that solution - is that it is not in the Bible).

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, (ticket) and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.
--It is in the Bible. Jesus is the only way to Heaven. He is the ticket. It is not the Sabbath; not the Ten Commandments, not any specific religion, but Christ alone. He is our ticket to Heaven. Once one trusts Christ as Saviour he promises him eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Christ is my ticket to eternal life. It cannot be taken away. If it could it would not be eternal life and Christ would be a liar. For eternal life would no longer be eternal it would only be temporary, which is not what Christ promised. Jesus Christ, the same, yesterday, today, and forever; is immutable. He cannot lie. He is my Saviour. Is He yours?
He is the only one that one can have a relationoship with. For when one is born again, he is born again into the family of God, and becomes a child of God. I have personal relationship with Jesus Christ because of the fact that I have been born again. And for that same reason, Christ, by the power of His Holy Spirit, changes me day by day. Salvation is never a ticket to do evil. Whoever makes such a naive accusation about Biblical Christianity does not understand what salvation is all about. Biblical salvation is not based on fear and works; but on love and grace.
DHK

 

[J. Jump]

What you are saying here is not in the Bible.

There is no clear evidence that spirit and soul are separate. The use of spirit and soul in the Hebrews passage is a parallelism. In many passages, the words "soul" and "spirit" are interchangeable. There is difference of opinion in the church as to whether man is body/soul/spirit or body/spirit(soul). I think it doesn't matter -- we are material and immaterial.

When one believes in Christ, one is saved totally but our bodies are not redeemed until the resurrection of our bodies in the future. To say our spirit is saved but not our soul is not a biblical view nor is it part of orthodox christianity.

We don't work to earn salvation; the bible is crystal clear on this. Read Galatians. However, sanctification, the process of growing in Christ is something we are to strive for in cooperation with the Holy Spirit.

Marcia let's just take a look at the verses and see if you are right.

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Well it looks like the Bible in fact does say that the soul and the spirit are divided.

Hebrews 10:39 - But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The Bible in fact says our soul is being saved, not already saved. And this is if we believe, not a guarantee.

James 1:21 - Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

This verse is written to believers. So if we do the things listed our souls will be saved. Why? Becuase they aren't saved as of yet.

I Peter 1:9 - Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

This is talking about the goal or the end of our faith, which is the salvation of the soul. This means that we have to wait for this. Salvation by grace through faith is a gift that is received at the moment of faith.

As you say sanctification is a process whereby we must cooperate with the Holy Spirit. If we do then our soul will be saved. If we do not then we will lose our soul.

This is the message of the Gospels.

Marcia this message is given throughout the Bible in the NT.

 

[J. Jump]

xdisciplex the reason you are having trouble getting these verses to mesh with other verses is because they don't. Don't get sucked into this false teaching that you can lose your salvation.

What has happened is folks are not rightly diving the Word and trying to make all of the NT speak to salvation by grace through faith. What happens when that takes place is that some folks think that you can lose your salvation, which is not true.

But if we would recognize there is salvation by grace through faith, which is not of works and is a free gift and then there is the salvation of the soul we could keep the Scriptures in the proper perspective.

The salvation of the soul is something that is not guaranteed to happen. It is something that can be grasped and then can be lost as per Hebrews 6:4. Most people say look you can loose your eternal salvation, but that's not what Hebrews 6:4 is talking about. Hebrews is talking about the salvation of the soul, and that is something that you can lose.

As to your other question, what does it matter...the salvation of the soul has to do with whether or not you are found as a worthy servant or a wicked servant. It has to do with whether or not you are an overcomer or whether you are overcome by the flesh, the world and/or Satan. It has to do with whether or not you are a member of the bride of Christ and whether or not you will rule and reign with Him during the 1,000-year reign of Christ.

Hope that helps.

 

[BobRyan]

To fully appreciate the doctrinal error of OSAS and the "need" it has to avoid "inconvenient texts" like the one in the OP -- we need to first understand the RIGHT view of Salvation.

To understand that OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) is error not taught in scripture we must first see what the Bible defines as “salvation” condition for the saints.

I consider that the Bible definition of one who is saved is the following.

#1. Reconciled to Christ - in fellowship with Christ.
#2. At peace with God in the light of His grace to us. (Rom 5:1
#3. Forgiven of sins (1John 1:9)
#4. Christ as our Mediator confessing us as His own before the courts of heaven. (1John 2:1)
#5. Faith that is alive and growing James 2:14-27, Heb 11:1-4
#6. Partaking of the Holy Spirit and the heavenly blessings of the age to come.
#7. Freedom from slavery to sin - escape from the tyranny of being forced to sin.
Walking in the Spirit and putting to death the deeds of the flesh. Walking as Christ walked rather than lying about our relationship to Christ.
(1John 2:2-5, Romans 8:3-9, Romans 6 all, Romans 2 all)


Yet all this is still WITH the sinful nature such that we in fact may sin - but will always find in Christ "A mediator with the Father" 1John 2:1 rather than the loss of salvation.

These are the basics in my view of salvation.

 

[BobRyan]

Next we must carefully review the following texts as they fully and completely disabuse all on the subject of the myths of OSAS.

For they are "consisten" with the "relationship" view of Salvation given above - regarding perseverance --

Saved walk “Contrasted” to the enslaved-to-sin walk defined in Romans 2

Rom 2
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Rom 8
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?
8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

12 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.

Rom 2
:16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
…
25 for indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
26 so if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

1Cor 9
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified

 

[BobRyan]

Finally we contrast those statements about walking with Christ and persevering - to the ones showing us failing cases of those who "fall from Grace" Gal 5, a term that indicates a past action whereby the saved person is actively "Severed from Christ" (Gal 5 terms not mine).

Therefore the “loss of salvation” is seen whenever that state of salvation is explicitly seen to be revoked, when our acceptance and peace with God is denied by God.

#1. Turned over to Satan 1 Tim 1
#2. A certain terrifying expectation of Judgment to come – Heb 10
#3. Forgiveness revoked Matt 18 – old massive debt is now put back on us.
#4. Christ denying us 2Tim 2
#5. The shipwreck of faith 1 Tim 1
#6. Impossible to be renewed again having been partakers of the Holy Spirit Heb 6
Bound up to be burned – John 15, Heb 6
#7. Enslaved to sin again – as a dog that returns to its vomit


Turned over to Satan – in the shipwreck of faith

1Tim 1
18This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,
19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.
20Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

Denied by Christ instead of His “confessing us before God and His angels” –

2 Tim 2
11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.

Soul bound by sin and under the condemnation of death

James 5
19-20, "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."

Forgiveness revoked –

Matt 18
21 Then Peter came and said to Him, ""Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?''
22 Jesus said to him, ""I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

23 ""For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24 ""When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.
25 ""But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26 ""So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, "Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.'
27 ""And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28 ""But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, "Pay back what you owe.'

Matt 18
29 ""So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, "Have patience with me and I will repay you.'
30 ""But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31 ""So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''

Severed FROM Christ and Fallen from grace

Gal 5

Gal 5
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

Peace with God replaced by a certain terrifying expectation of judgment to come

Heb 10
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Fallen and yet hoping to be “grafted BACK in again” into the vine of Christ!

Rom 11
18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Having escaped, and tasted of the future life and been partakers of the Holy Spirit – fallen away and then burned.

Heb 6
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

 

[BobRyan]

Now as it turns out - the foibles and failings of a man-made-tradition will often "blame the one who READS the text" when confronted with disconfirming - texts that fully and completely refute a man-made-tradition as in the list of texts above.

That is not "surprising" nor is it "new".

But those who engage in such tactics end up with a "bad bible" section and a "good Bible section".

They complain and gripe whenever they see someone quoting from the "bad bible" texts saying "Don't be fooled into believing those texts". But then they have to go through complex girations and gloss-over tricks and tactics trying to "fix" all the "bad bible texts"

In Christ,

Bob

 

[J. Jump]

They complain and gripe whenever they see someone quoting from the "bad bible" texts saying "Don't be fooled into believing those texts". But then they have to go through complex girations and gloss-over tricks and tactics trying to "fix" all the "bad bible texts"

Bob I would agree that folks that don't understand the difference between the salvation of the spirit and the salvation of the soul tend to do exactly what you are talking about, but you fail to separate the two distinct subjects and come up with a false idea that one can lose their salvation, which is a free gift.

First of all you include a lot of things in your definition that the Bible does not include in It's definition.

Ephesians 2:8-9 and Acts 16:30-31 are EXTREMELY clear on what salvation by grace is and what it takes. It is God's grace given as a gift that must be received by faith and has nothing at all to do with man's works, but the works of Christ on the cross and His shed blood.

So outside of faith on the death and shed blood of the Lamb of God everything else in your definition is outside of the Biblical defintion of eternal salvation.

Salvation is something that God gives you. You don't earn it, so why would you think you could do something to unearn it when you didn't earn it in the first place.

Man is so concerned with having to do something for salvation or do soemthing to keep salvation that they turn God's grace into a worker's wages. Those two things don't mesh. They never have and they never will. If man comes into the picture at all then it is no longer grace, but a wage, becuase it is something you are due.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Well it looks like the Bible in fact does say that the soul and the spirit are divided.

Well, when Jesus died, his body went in the grave, his spirit went to be with the Father, and his soul went to hell...

Unless the Father is in hell...

BobRyan, your theology sounds surprisingly similar to a professor I had in college who gave us a test on the 17 steps to being saved. I gave the correct answer of one step: "Believe (punctiliar) on the Lord Jesus and you will (indicative; no doubt about it!) be saved", but he didn't appreciate the truth of Scripture either.

We should serve the Lord because we love him, but many don't. Thank God that our salvation doesn't depent on that! It depends upon the finished (and perfect) work of Jesus on the cross!

We should also esteem the things that the Lord esteems enough to offer to us. Just as there are wages for sin, we have been offered wages for righteous living. Those wages are not spiritual salvation, but are crowns and treasure that is laid up for us.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
You can not bend the Bible "enough" to insert OSAS into every text no matter how much wrenching of the text it takes. It will simply wear you out.

As you already noticed in 1Cor 9, the same holds true in Matt 18, in Matt 7, in Romans 2, in Romans 11, in Ezek 18, in 2Tim 2 .. the list just keeps going and going and going.

Better to just accept the Bible as it reads and dump OSAS.

Running for the prize and the reference to crowns in 1 Cor 9 is rewards, not salvation. Either Col. 1. 13-14 and Jn. 5.24 are true, or they are not. Both say we are saved.

13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Col 1.13-14

Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Jn 5.24

So have we been transferred from the kingdom of darkness or not? Have we passed out of death into life or not? If not, these words are meaningless.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
Marcia let's just take a look at the verses and see if you are right.

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Well it looks like the Bible in fact does say that the soul and the spirit are divided.

I already addressed Heb. 4.12. It's a metaphorical statement - God's word is not literally a sword nor does it literally divide soul and spirit. If this is true, then why are spirit and soul used interchangeable in many passsages?

Soul sometimes means life and sometimes is used for spirit.

SOUL (psuche):
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death....

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)

Thus in Greek "soul" refers to the animating principle which feels, desires, and can attain everlasting life with God. And "spirit" is also the animating principle which feels, thinks, and decides. And notice once again, the use of the word soul to define spirit (twice in fact: 2b,3b). Only #4 for spirit gives so much as a hint the two might be distinct.

Summing up, overall the definitions of the English words and lexical entries for the Hebrew and Greek words indicate that "soul" and "spirit" are interchangeable terms, with common characteristics ascribed to both.
http://www.dtl.org/dtl/treatise/soul-spirit-1.htm

 

[J. Jump]

Marcia do you believe the Bible is living and active as is able to judge the thoughts and the intentions of the heart?

 

[Marcia]

Posted by J Jump
Hebrews 10:39 - But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The Bible in fact says our soul is being saved, not already saved. And this is if we believe, not a guarantee.

James 1:21 - Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

This verse is written to believers. So if we do the things listed our souls will be saved. Why? Becuase they aren't saved as of yet.

I Peter 1:9 - Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

This is talking about the goal or the end of our faith, which is the salvation of the soul. This means that we have to wait for this. Salvation by grace through faith is a gift that is received at the moment of faith.

I must interpret all of the above passages in light of passages such as Col 1.13-14, Jn 5.24, and others which state unequivocally that we are saved. Period. To say our spirits are saved and not our souls is really bizarre -- did you get this from Watchman Nee? He was fond of dividing up the soul and spirit and adding his quirky teachings to scripture.

I don't see where Heb 10.39 says we have to save our souls - it is talking about our our souls are saved. In context of preceding verses, he is saying we are among those who are saved.

James 1.21 is in context of putting aside bad speech and being preserved in "an impure age" as one commentator puts it. Being saved here could refer to this. Also, the word "save" refers back to God's word, which is able to save. Another view:

The Gospel is engrafted inwardly, and so fulfils the ultimate design of the law ( Deu 6:6 11:18 Psa 119:11 ). ALFORD translates, "The implanted word," referring to the parable of the sower ( Mat 13:1-23 ). I prefer English Version.
able to save--a strong incentive to correct our dulness in hearing the word: that word which we hear so carelessly, is able (instrumentally) to save us [CALVIN].
souls--your true selves, for the "body" is now liable to sickness and death: but the soul being now saved, both soul and body at last shall be so ( Jam 5:15, 20 ).
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1148505155-6205.html

1 Pet 1.9 is just saying that faith results in salvation.

for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

As you say sanctification is a process whereby we must cooperate with the Holy Spirit. If we do then our soul will be saved. If we do not then we will lose our soul.

Sanctification is a process, yes, but sanctification is not justification (as in salvation). The justification that is salvation is not a process! We are justified at the moment of fatih - declared righteous in God's eyes, saved for eternity. But sanctification, the conforming to the image of Chirst, is a process.

If you think being saved is a process, this is a Roman Catholic teaching. This is counter to everything taught in Baptist theology, though you list yourself as a Baptist. So it's strange to see a Baptist say this.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
Marcia do you believe the Bible is living and active as is able to judge the thoughts and the intentions of the heart?

Of course. I suggest you do research on the soul and spirit thing and on parallelism.

Did you read what I posted on the Greek words for soul and spirit? Have you read commentaries on this issue?

I am not going to continue to debate this -- I've already delved into this topic several times on the BB before. Do a search.

 

[J. Jump]

Okay this may take awhile, but here goes.

I don't want to deal with Colossians until we take care of the verse you used out of John. Let me ask you this. Do you believe once a person is saved that they are eternally saved (once saved always saved). In other words when I am saved by grace through faith that is something that I can not lose. Would you agree to that statement?

If so you are going to have real problems trying to reconcile the OSAS stance with this verse, because it is a present tense. Meaning if you are not in the same state tomorrow this will not be true. Again eternal salvation is always in the past and not a present/continuing thing. It's a done deal.

Next let's take a look at the verses that I gave you.

Hebrews 10:39 makes it plain and simple. The author and the audience are not ones that have sunk back, but they are believers to the saving of their soul. A couple of problems with your view. One the verse states that there are those that haven't shrunk back and there are those that have. These were believers whose souls were being saved, and the ones that shrunk back were not.

Two this is present tense verb meaning this is something that they are right now. Eternal salvation is a past act never referred to in the present tense.

James 1:21 doesn't have anything to do with being preserved through a bad generation of folks. It says if you do these things and receive the word which is ABLE to save your soul. It doesn't say it does. It says it's able. Why is it only able? Becuase the believer must continue to cooperate and believe. If they don't then even though they have the word their soul will not be saved.

I Peter 1:9 is not saying that salvation results from faith. It says the END of your faith or the goal of your faith...the OUTCOME of your faith. Does your faith end at salvation? Does your faith reach it's goal at salvation? No you are to continually live by faith. So at the end of your faith (when your life is complete) hopefully your soul will be saved.