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1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Here's a few scriptures showing Christ abolished the Old Covenant which Circumcision became a part of.
This verse shows that circumcision, not blood made one a Jew.
“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:14)
This shows that the Ten Commandments (The Old Covenant) is obsolete having been replaced by the New Covenant. Circumcision was part of the Old Covenant imported from Abraham.
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:” (Jeremiah 31:31–32)
Paul shows that the Law and ordinances were removed by Jesus on the cross.
“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;” (Colossians 2:13–14)
Moses calls the Ten Commandments "ordinances".
“And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.” Exodus 18:20 (KJV 1900)
Paul forbids circumcision in the traditional Jewish. (We are not talking about 21st century medical practices).
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” (Galatians 5:1–2)
“For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:3–4)
Still, no specific Scripture saying Jesus abolished circumcision!
Now, if one actually attempts to keep the law for salvation, one must never have broken the slightest point of it. But they still come up short, as they'll have disobeyed the command to believe in & trust in JESUS for salvation.
Paul still followed many Jewish practices, but he never preached against Jews who were Christians & had ceased following any Jewish practices. He wrote that it was a matter of individual conscience, & I'm sure the Holy Spirit told him to write thusly.
For example, Paul kept Sabbaths & special events such as the Feast of tabernacles & passover. (The main Jewish thing Paul ceased doing was making sacrifices.) And, where he spoke against circumcision, he was writing to the GALATIANS. (gentiles) He always told gentiles no not try to become Jews; Jesus saved Jew & gentile alike.
So, Jesus doidn't ABOLISH circumcision, especially among the Jews; He made it no longer necessary for salvation, especially among gentiles.
(The practice of "female circumcision" as practiced by some Moslem sects, is entirely-evil & wrong ! !)
Now, if one actually attempts to keep the law for salvation, one must never have broken the slightest point of it. But they still come up short, as they'll have disobeyed the command to believe in & trust in JESUS for salvation.
Paul still followed many Jewish practices, but he never preached against Jews who were Christians & had ceased following any Jewish practices. He wrote that it was a matter of individual conscience, & I'm sure the Holy Spirit told him to write thusly.
For example, Paul kept Sabbaths & special events such as the Feast of tabernacles & passover. (The main Jewish thing Paul ceased doing was making sacrifices.) And, where he spoke against circumcision, he was writing to the GALATIANS. (gentiles) He always told gentiles no not try to become Jews; Jesus saved Jew & gentile alike.
So, Jesus doidn't ABOLISH circumcision, especially among the Jews; He made it no longer necessary for salvation, especially among gentiles.
(The practice of "female circumcision" as practiced by some Moslem sects, is entirely-evil & wrong ! !)
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jeremiah and Hebrews both say the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant (Ten Commandments/Circumcision/Sabbath).
Concerning the first issue, New Testament Christians are no longer under the Old Testament Law, and circumcision is no longer required. This is brought out in a number of New Testament passages, among which are Acts 15; Galatians 2:1–3; 5:1–11; 6:11–16; 1 Corinthians 7:17–20; Colossians 2:8–12; and Philippians 3:1–3. As these passages proclaim, being delivered from our sins is the result of faith in Christ; it is Christ’s finished work on the cross that saves, not the observance of an external rite. Even the Law acknowledged that circumcision alone was insufficient to please God, who specified the need to “circumcise your hearts” (Deuteronomy 10:16; cf. Romans 2:29). In salvation, the works of the flesh accomplish nothing (see Galatians 2:16).
What does the Bible say about circumcision? What is the Christian view of circumcision? | GotQuestions.org
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You should study Scripture better. Paul wrote that if one's conscience told him to eat or not eat certain foods, one should follow it. Same for keeping Sabbaths or not, keeping feast days or not, & I'm sure circumcision was included. And again, Paul was writing to GENTILES, not Jews. it's evident from Scripture & history that most Christian Jews kept most Jewish customs. And most Christian Jews today still do the same. AGAIN, JESUS NEVER ABOLISHED NOR FORBADE CIRCUMCISION !
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.” Romans 2:28–29 (KJV 1900)
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” Revelation 2:9 (KJV 1900)
“Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.” Revelation 3:9 (KJV 1900)
Still, no Scripture saying jesus abolished circumcision !
Learn a little history. In those days, there were phony Jews who were seeking favor from the Roman govt. Part of that was some of them infiltrating into Christian churches. This, of course, displeased God, who spoke against them. That had nothing to do with genuine Jews.
Again, you really need for the HOLY SPIRIT to straighten out your theology!
Learn a little history. In those days, there were phony Jews who were seeking favor from the Roman govt. Part of that was some of them infiltrating into Christian churches. This, of course, displeased God, who spoke against them. That had nothing to do with genuine Jews.
Again, you really need for the HOLY SPIRIT to straighten out your theology!
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Scripture says the OT (includes Circumcision) is superseded by by the NT. It's there if any want to see it.
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” Galatians 5:1–2 (KJV 1900)
The term shortly could be compared to eternity instead of our own time. Say these things begin at the end of this year. Which would be 2019 years since Christ went to the Father.. 2019 years isn't even a speck of time when compared to infinity. To us it's a very long time. Then there is another possibility. That is that John was wrong or Christ lied. One thing for sure Christ did not come in 70 ad. The anti Christ did not enter the temple and show him self as God. Nor did he make fire come down from heaven. Not only this but there was no temple for the anti Christ to do such a thing.. The Romans took care of that because they destroyed it.There has been no mark of the beast there has been no one world government. No locust with the face of a man.No 4 horses of the apocalypse.
MB
Let's look at yer pet verse in MODERN English:
Gal. 5:2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
Paul is telling the galatian gentiles(and all others) they do NOT need to be circumcised if they weren't already before they were saved. Someone, likely an unsaved Jew, was likely telling them they needed to be, as well as to keep other points of "the law".
Remember, Paul had been circumcised, & so had every other Jewish male who was later saved. And Paul still followed some Jewish traditions. He DID advise gentile Christians not to drink blood (and also to avoid things strangled, food they knew had been offered to idols, & from fornication, as well. The only actual sin among them, was, of course, fornication.)
And while the Jewish Christians no longer offered sacrifices, they DID bring monetary offerings to the temple, & practiced many of their old traditions.
AND AGAIN, JESUS DID NOT ABOLISH CIRCUMCISION !
Not true.
There were Jews in tye holy land for at leats 100 years before that. They were buying up property from the Arabs legally.
Personally, I don't look for them to be fulfilled in the distant future...I think most of it already has been.
But, I also think that just because some people think that some things have already happened, the chronological order of events developed in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 has not been completely fulfilled, either.
" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." ( 2 Peter 3:8 ).
Time means nothing to the Lord.
We're on His timetable, and that can take as long as He wants.
For example, Abraham was promised that God would make of him a great nation at the "tender age" of 75 ( Genesis 12:1-3 ).
He repeated this, and developed more details about it after he came out of Egypt ( Genesis 15:1-6 ).
Abraham dwelt 10 years in the land of Canaan after leaving Egypt, before Sarah persuaded him to take her handmaid Hagar as his concubine and she bore Ismael to him at the age of 86.
When Abram was 99, the Lord reiterated His promises to him, and gave him even more detail...that the child's name would be Isaac, and that he would be born when Abraham was 100 ( Genesis 17:21 ).
My point?
Again, God doesn't work on our timetable, He works on His.
No.
We haven't seen enough of the necessary "climate changes" for His second coming to be right on top of us...but it is very close.
The fact that there's been no tribulation that has made the plagues of Egypt look like a picnic, is a good indicator.
Are you aware of any historical records where massive earthquakes, floods, stellar happenings, plagues, hailstones, fire and blood, etc have occurred, people knew that it was the judgment of God and hid in the rocks...and it has already happened?
I'm not.
If they did, the Bible says immediately after the Tribulation, Christ will come ( Matthew 24:29-31 ) and gather His elect from the corners of the world.
Again, I'm not aware of Christ taking His people to Himself, or I'd be with Him.
I've looked at the map...the road is longer than some people think it should be, and probably shorter than some think it will be.
The fullness of the Gentiles hasn't come in yet.
Too many things are out of sequence if we are in the kingdom right now.
Christ has not returned to reign at Jerusalem, for one thing.
The events did begin to be fulfilled soon after the book was written and continue to be fulfilled today.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I agree.
For example, the Temple was destroyed, just like He said it would be.
But I see no thousand year reign from David's throne at Jerusalem as having happened yet.
No "beast" ( Anti-Christ ) who has a false prophet and makes people take his mark, and no 3.5 year time of plagues, all green grass being burned up, trees destroyed, every living thing in the sea killed, people working a day for a day's food, the Third Temple being built in Jerusalem ( very close now...all they need is the land on the Temple Mount ), two thirds of the world's population killed off, etc.
When these come to pass....look up.
Some were there since 70 AD but Israel became a country in 1948.
Jesus Saves!
Active Member
1 Corinthians 7:18-19 KJVS
[18] Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
[18] Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
I agree.
For example, the Temple was destroyed, just like He said it would be.
But I see no thousand year reign from David's throne at Jerusalem as having happened yet.
No "beast" ( Anti-Christ ) who has a false prophet and makes people take his mark, and no 3.5 year time of plagues, all green grass being burned up, trees destroyed, every living thing in the sea killed, people working a day for a day's food, the Third Temple being built in Jerusalem ( very close now...all they need is the land on the Temple Mount ), two thirds of the world's population killed off, etc.
When these come to pass....look up.
Preterists try to reduce the Scriptures predicting those things to "figurative/symbolic" status to keep their false doctrine alive, since those events haven't happened yet, but they're wrong. The destruction of jerusalem & the temple shows those prophesied events are LITERAL; they simply haven't happened yet.
A main trait of quasi/pseudo/Christian cults is to "symbolize" Scripture to match their agendas.
The land belonged to the Jews anyway, as GOD had given it to them. However, they obeyed the laws of man by legally buying much of it. And, they also made "offers they couldn't refuse" to some non-Jewish landowners, & later took some of it by force.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You are looking for the wrong things and have missed the real ones.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
“For all the promises of God in him [Jesus] are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (KJV 1900)
“The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.” (Leviticus 25:23)
“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” (Galatians 3:16)
“For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would inherit the world was not through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. If those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made empty and the promise is canceled.” (Romans 4:13–14) (HCSB)
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