Discerning Truth

[steaver]

So many differently held doctrines and beliefs concerning salvation and discipleship of an individual.

How can one discern between them?

I have discovered that there is one commmon denominator among those doctrines that are held in error. It is what I call the "I don't know" factor.

Every belief in this area should be scrutinized with questions, this is how we learn and understand if the belief is Truth or error. I have found that when a belief is questioned to it's fullest extent and the end leads to an "I don't know" then it is false.

Why do I believe this? The NT is written and given to us for our understanding and our benefit, we would all agree I hope. We are told how to be saved, how to serve, how to be faithful, how to be obedient, how to love, how to bear fruit, pray, do good deeds, etc, etc (still agree I hope) . It was written for us to KNOW what is expected of us and to KNOW what the results of faith and service brings (this is where we lose some) . As one born of God we also have the Holy Spirit that can guide us into all Truth and gives us understanding of God's Word.

It is obvious that God would not give us His word on how to live and then declare "but you cannot really know if you are living the way I say to live". That would be absolutely retarded. God does not play silly games with His word. He wants us to know right and wrong and wants us to know if we are doing right or wrong. There is no "I don't knows" in God's word when it comes to knowing what to do and knowing if you are doing it or have done it.

God wants us to have erternal life and wants us to know that we have it. God wants us to do good and know when we have done good. God wants us to produce fruit and know when we have produced fruit. God wants us to know what sin is and know when we have sinned.

So there is no "not knowing" when it comes to these Truths mentioned above in scripture. With this in mind, question the doctrine to it's fullest. If the doctrine ends in a "I don't know" then you "can know" that it is not what is taught in God's word concerning salvation and discipleship. For God gave His word that ye may KNOW! Praise Him! :godisgood:

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[billwald]

Exactly. Which Is every time I read my Bibles I know less and less.

 

[DHK]

John E. Little wrote two books:
"Know What you Believe"
"Know Why you Believe"

It is imperative that we know why we believe what we believe.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: It is imperative that we know why we believe what we believe.

HP: I agree. Beliefs matter. They are the engine of our intents and subsequent actions.

 

[Hope of Glory]

HP: I agree. Beliefs matter. They are the engine of our intents and subsequent actions.

You mean we should do more than simply yell "heretic!" at each other and pound on the podium?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Hope of Glory: You mean we should do more than simply yell "heretic!" at each other and pound on the podium?

HP: That is an interesting way of expressing it.:laugh:

 

[just-want-peace]

If the doctrine ends in a "I don't know" then you "can know" that it is not what is taught in God's word concerning salvation and discipleship. For God gave His word that ye may KNOW! Praise Him! :godisgood:

Interesting concept; I've never heard this idea before, but I do think it's something I have generally believed, but never in these terms.

I do question some obvious (for lack of a better term) "contradictions" though that result in my having to say "I don't know!"

1 God being love, vs "Esau have I hated"
2 Predestination vs free will
3 Pre trib vs mid trib vs post trib vs no trib -- just to name a few.

My take is to accept the Scriptures at face value, literal, verbatum unless the the text and/or context gives a reason to allegorize spiritualize, or parabalize.

Where I cannot determine what I feel God is truly saying, I just have to accept the fact that I don't understand it and trust Him to be the gracious God that He is.

After all, there's a humongeous amount of "stuff" I don't understand, but the sun rises each day and the earth keeps spinning on it's axis regardless of whether I understand all of it or none of it.

MARA NATHA!!!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

If the doctrine ends in a "I don't know" then you "can know" that it is not what is taught in God's word concerning salvation and discipleship. For God gave His word that ye may KNOW! Praise Him!

HP: I do not know about the ‘doctrine’ that ends in ‘I don’t know’ but there is a whole lot that we do not know as finite beings. There is also a lot that we ‘know’ in which our knowledge more closely resembles an aberration of light or as one that sees an object through a glass darkly.

There is also a great difference between knowing something ‘absolutely’ and knowing something that must be understood and held ‘by faith.’

 

[BobRyan]

You mean we should do more than simply yell "heretic!" at each other and pound on the podium?

Hmmm - a lot of attention should be paid to that observation!

Bluster - pulpit-pounding and name calling is NOT a satisfactory substitute for sound doctrine and the ability to accept inconvenient facts of scripture!


"And the people said..." AMEN!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I agree with the OP to the extent that when I challenge some on this board and when I challenge JW's who reject the Trinity by pointing out the inconvenient details of scripture that in fact DO support the trinity -- they walk away saying "too hard" and "I don't know" and "you won't believe what we say and stopping asking those questions".

So -- agreed that is a sign of bad doctrine.

On the other hand -- how is it that "God is ONE" and also TRIUNE with the PERSON of the God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?

Another "I don't know" because we in fact can not fathom all that is infinite God!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[J. Jump]

Another dangerous practice you are advocating Steaver. I know a lot of people that "have" all the answers, but when you test their "answers" with Scripture they don't add up.

So it's easy to come up with "answers" to all the questions.

We best be careful lest we fall when we think we have it all figured out 100%!

Because I would have to agree with another poster in that the more I know the more I know that I don't know and there's nothing wrong in admitting that. The people that I question the most are the people that think they have all the answers, because again when testing what they say it usually doesn't add up to Scripture!

 

[steaver]

Please be careful to keep my OP in context of what "knowing" I am refering to. I was specific and not refering to all knowledge about God.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

So there is no "not knowing" when it comes to these Truths mentioned above in scripture. With this in mind, question the doctrine to it's fullest. If the doctrine ends in a "I don't know" then you "can know" that it is not what is taught in God's word concerning salvation and discipleship. For God gave His word that ye may KNOW! Praise Him! :godisgood:

In the consistent and correct Arminian model regarding salvation and KNOWING that you have salvation the BIBLE solution is in Romans 8:16 - a living relationship

Rom 8

12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live[/b].
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again[/b], but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "" Abba! Father!''
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God[/b],




The "I don't know" is not here. But just as the 3 and 5 point Calvinists who HOLD to the Bible doctrine on perseverance do not know that in the FUTURE they will not fail to persevere ten years from today - so it is with the consistent Bible believing Arminian who also accepts that Bible doctrine.

NOT Knowing what you will choose in the "future" is NEVER a sign of good or bad doctrine. It is simply admitting to a glaringly obvious fact of life.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

NOT Knowing what you will choose in the "future" is NEVER a sign of good or bad doctrine. It is simply admitting to a glaringly obvious fact of life.

in Christ,

Bob

I would disagree when it comes to the scriptures. The scriptures tells us of our future in Christ, how we will perservere and will be presented blameless. So according to the scriptures once you are placed in Christ by God you become a new creature and will forever be with the Lord, not for our glory, but for His name's sake! Praise Jesus! :godisgood:

 

[BobRyan]

The people in Matt 7 used that same logic to claim that they too knew the future!

In Romans 11 there is no "but you know the future so pay no attention to this scripture" found in the text.

All those who argue that "failure to know what you will choose ten years from today is a sign of false doctrine" are basing their theology on mythology not scripture.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

You have come to the right place!!

1 Timothy 4:16
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.



Heb 2:1-3
1. For this reason we must pay close attention to what have heard lest we drift away from it


Heb 3:6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence
and the boast of our hope firm until the end.


Heb 3:12-14
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called ""Today,'' so that none of you will be hardened
by the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,



Heb 10:35-39
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND [b]IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. [/b]
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.



1Cor 15:1-2
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received,
in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

These texts all point to HOLDING on to the salvation that you HAVE -- and warn against the real problem of failing to do so.

But if one fails to HOLD what they have - then the circular argument "they never had anything to hold on to" is dead.

Rom 11:22

20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness,
if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able tograft them in again.

Col 1:21-23
22 He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death in order to PRESENT you before Him
Holy and Blameless and beyond reproach
23 [b]IF INDEED you CONTINUE in the faith FIRMLY established and STEADFAST and NOT MOVED AWAY[/b]
from the HOPE of the Gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven
and of which I Paul was made a minister.

 

[billwald]

"Belief" is the result of some sort of a data analysis. The data can come from one's observations of life's experiences. Usually does. One's origional data comes from one's mother and expands from there.

 

[billwald]

>The scriptures tells us of our future in Christ, how we will perservere and will be presented blameless.

The problem is in the pronouns, Kemosabe. Mormons can say the same thing.

 

[steaver]

The people in Matt 7 used that same logic to claim that they too knew the future!

In Romans 11 there is no "but you know the future so pay no attention to this scripture" found in the text.

All those who argue that "failure to know what you will choose ten years from today is a sign of false doctrine" are basing their theology on mythology not scripture.

in Christ,

Bob

The people in Matt 7 are of no comparision. They are not in Christ nor would have any understanding as do those who are in Christ.

Outside of that, I have to agree with you!

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

You mean we should do more than simply yell "heretic!" at each other and pound on the podium?

Such a great point. Thanks to Hope of Glory for posting it.

in Christ,

Bob