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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Agent47, Jan 23, 2017.

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  1. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Even if just, still sadistic.
     
    #41 StefanM, Jan 25, 2017
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How about th Godofthe Bible, who created Man and gve Him a paradie, who then rejected it, and He then set forth His own Son to die for sinners? You are are describing Satan, not God on this positing of yours!
     
    #42 Yeshua1, Jan 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think the correct answer to your questions would be NONEwould be saved!
     
    #43 Yeshua1, Jan 26, 2017
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How so? Would be like you having a child that killed smneone, and got the chair fo that deed. Would execute the sentence, and still feel for thir own child!
     
    #44 Yeshua1, Jan 26, 2017
  5. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Intentionally creating a universe where the end result is that everyone is in conscious torment for eternity is incomparable to your example. Death is one thing. Eternal torment is another.

    If the whole design was to create an outcome of 100% eternal torment, that's sadistic.
     
    #45 StefanM, Jan 26, 2017
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God created the Universe for His glory, an made a in his own image, andloved us enougt o not damn all of us, and gae His own Son fo our stead!
     
    #46 Yeshua1, Jan 26, 2017
  7. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Well, except for the ones he didn't elect, right?
     
    #47 StefanM, Jan 26, 2017
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, as they also will be to His glory in the end, as God shows to all His right ways and Holiness, and how he allowed them "to havetheir way"
    Does God ever make mistakes, bad choices?
     
    #48 Yeshua1, Jan 26, 2017
  9. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I meant he didn't love them enough.
     
    #49 StefanM, Jan 26, 2017
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is God required to love all equally?
     
    #50 Yeshua1, Jan 26, 2017
  11. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I never said that. I just find it unsustainable with the concept of hell in mind to think of God extending love of any real value to those condemned for eternity.

    It's more consistent to just say he loves the ones he saves, and he basically hates the ones he doesn't.
     
    #51 StefanM, Jan 26, 2017
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I understand the concern (particularly since God is Creator), but why sadistic?
     
    #52 JonC, Jan 26, 2017
  13. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    To create a universe with 100% hell rate? It's gratuitous.
     
    #53 StefanM, Jan 26, 2017
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It wouldn't make sense to me, but I don't know if it would imply that God actually derived pleasure from the act (God does judge the wicked while "taking no pleasure").

    There seems a responsibility in the Creator/creature relationship implied by God's own nature. I don't mean that God can't exercise judgment or express wrath, but the focus may have to be in accord with God's nature and design. When God exercises wrath and judgment, this is not "hate" for a creature but love for Creation. What is in mind is that reconciliation that dwarfs what existed in Eden.

    Anyway....sorry for rambling....I get your point. :)
     
    #54 JonC, Jan 26, 2017
  15. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    We're speaking of a theoretical alternate deity anyway. I don't know of any Christian who believes that God actually sends 100% of humanity to hell.

    A deity that did so would be sadistic and would have to take pleasure in it. It's not like anything else would be available to take pleasure in.

    The problem of hell is a major, major issue for Christianity as-is. It wouldn't even be remotely defensible with this alternate deity.
     
    #55 StefanM, Jan 26, 2017
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I can love your child, bu really love my own!
    he loves His covenant people in that fashion...
     
    #56 Yeshua1, Jan 26, 2017
  17. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I'm not roasting your child in hell forever.
     
    #57 StefanM, Jan 26, 2017
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Hypothetical is always problematic; it exists in a context of exaggeration.
     
    #58 JonC, Jan 26, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    To have 100% of humanity in rebellion to the Sovereign King of the Universe and yet the King patiently withholds destroying rebels because the Sovereign King mercifully chooses to spare some is wonderfully amazing grace.
     
    #59 MennoSota, Jan 26, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  20. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Meh
     
    #60 StefanM, Jan 26, 2017
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