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Dispensation of Heresy documentary.

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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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Jerome said:
Charles Spurgeon, sermon "The Necessity of Increased Faith":

"A certain somebody drew up five or six doctrines, and said, 'There are the doctrines of the Bible,' and ye believe these....Calvin is made the standard and what business has any man to think a single thought beyond Calvin? Blessed be God, we have gone a little beyond that; and we can say, 'Increase our faith.' With all our admiration for these great standard divines, we are not prepared to shut ourselves up in their little iron cages; but we say, 'Open the door, and let me fly—let me still feel that I am at liberty. Increase my faith, and help me to believe a little more.' I know I can say I have had an increase of faith in one or two respects within the last few months. I could not, for a long time, see anything like the Millenium in the Scriptures; I could not much rejoice in the Second Coming of Christ, though I did believe it; but gradually my faith began to open to that subject, and I find it now a part of my meat and drink, to be looking for, as well as hastening unto, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

and from the last Confession of faith signed by Spurgeon, circa 1890:

"We, the undersigned...hold and maintain the truths generally known as 'the doctrines of grace.' The Electing Love of God the Father, the Propitiatory and Substitutionary Sacrifice of his Son, Jesus Christ, Regeneration by the Holy Ghost, the Imputation of Christ's Righteousness, the Justification of the sinner (once for all) by faith, his walk in newness of life and growth in grace by the active indwelling of the Holy Ghost, and the Priestly Intercession of our Lord Jesus, as also the hopeless perdition of all who reject the Savior, according to the words of the Lord in Matt 25:46, "These shall go away into eternal punishment,"—are, in our judgment, revealed and fundamental truths. Our hope is the Personal Pre-millennial Return of the Lord Jesus in glory."
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Bingo, as Historical premil was the viewpoint held by many Christians before Augustine made A Mil the dominant view!
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
Zechariah 14:16
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This is a reference to re-establishing the feast of tabernacles in Jerusalem after the Jews return from exile, Worshipping the Lord of Hosts as the Jews were always suppose to.

I really didn’t see anything in the passage about the Messiah, new heavens/earth, thousand year reign and so on.

peace to you
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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canadyjd said:
This is a reference to re-establishing the feast of tabernacles in Jerusalem after the Jews return from exile, Worshipping the Lord of Hosts as the Jews were always suppose to.

I really didn’t see anything in the passage about the Messiah, new heavens/earth, thousand year reign and so on.

peace to you
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All nations did not travel there at that time to worship with them!
 
R

Revmitchell

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canadyjd said:
Revelation does not say Jesus will rule for a thousand years. It says those who were killed during the tribulation will rule with Jesus for a thousand years. The context is the reward for obedient suffering and death.
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And yet you ignored the other 5 times verses 1-7 addresses the Millennial Kingdom. There are a number of events that also take place. Let's take a look at those:

1. v.2 Satan is bound for that time
2. v.3 at the end Satan is loosed
3. v.4 Saints that reign with Christ
4. v.5 rest of the dead lived at the finish of the Millennium
5. v.6 Saints reigning with Christ in the Millennium
6. v.7 Satan will be loosed

There is no doubt that there is reward for obedient suffering to be sure. That however does not negate a literal Millennium. Further, I have listed several events that will take place during that time which also sets up context.

Jesus rules for all eternity.
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He does. No one disputes that but again, that does not negate a literal Millennium and Christ ruling from the Davidic seat literally. Doing so doesn't diminish the fact that Christ rules eternally nor does it cause conflict with it.

All interpretation must be determined by context among other things. Apocalyptic prophecy is consistently symbolic.

peace to you
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Yes, as I have often said on this board context is king. There is a great amount of symbolism in Apocalyptic prophecy. However, that meaning of that symbolism is literal and not spiritualized. It represents something things or event that is literal.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
And yet you ignored the other 5 times verses 1-7 addresses the Millennial Kingdom. There are a number of events that also take place. Let's take a look at those:

1. v.2 Satan is bound for that time
2. v.3 at the end Satan is loosed
3. v.4 Saints that reign with Christ
4. v.5 rest of the dead lived at the finish of the Millennium
5. v.6 Saints reigning with Christ in the Millennium
6. v.7 Satan will be loosed

There is no doubt that there is reward for obedient suffering to be sure. That however does not negate a literal Millennium. Further, I have listed several events that will take place during that time which also sets up context.



He does. No one disputes that but again, that does not negate a literal Millennium and Christ ruling from the Davidic seat literally. Doing so doesn't diminish the fact that Christ rules eternally nor does it cause conflict with it.



Yes, as I have often said on this board context is king. There is a great amount of symbolism in Apocalyptic prophecy. However, that meaning of that symbolism is literal and not spiritualized. It represents something things or event that is literal.
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We can disagree.

peace to you
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
And yet you ignored the other 5 times verses 1-7 addresses the Millennial Kingdom. There are a number of events that also take place. Let's take a look at those:

1. v.2 Satan is bound for that time
2. v.3 at the end Satan is loosed
3. v.4 Saints that reign with Christ
4. v.5 rest of the dead lived at the finish of the Millennium
5. v.6 Saints reigning with Christ in the Millennium
6. v.7 Satan will be loosed

There is no doubt that there is reward for obedient suffering to be sure. That however does not negate a literal Millennium. Further, I have listed several events that will take place during that time which also sets up context.



He does. No one disputes that but again, that does not negate a literal Millennium and Christ ruling from the Davidic seat literally. Doing so doesn't diminish the fact that Christ rules eternally nor does it cause conflict with it.



Yes, as I have often said on this board context is king. There is a great amount of symbolism in Apocalyptic prophecy. However, that meaning of that symbolism is literal and not spiritualized. It represents something things or event that is literal.
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Any belief that there is a separate future for Christians and Jews must account for the Eph passage that both Gentiles and Jews have been made into one new man by the work of Jesus on the cross.

That cannot be undone.

Perhaps you can help me understand this theology. Does it suppose National Israel will be re-established as a nation on earth with Jesus reigning as King? Does that mean the throne of Jesus is not in heaven but on earth? Does it teach the sacrifices in the temple will resume? Does it teach Jews will reign on earth while Christians are in heaven?

I tell you plainly, I want to be in heaven with Jesus. Nothing less will do.

peace to you
 
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John of Japan

John of Japan

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Ronnie Vaughan said:
This page has a chart that highlights the differences between normative Dispensationalism and Normative Covenantalism Dispensationalism and Covenantalism: What are the differences?
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Welcome to the BB and Merry Christmas.

The link is a good addition to the discussion, but has a couple of errors. First of all, a dispensation is not a "period of time" but a stewardship from God. How long the stewardship takes is not the main thing. Secondly, dispensationalists are very clear that the theology is doxological, putting God's glory first. However the chart has dispensationalism believing, "The purpose of God is to gather a people for himself." It is true that "a purpose" (singular) of God is to gather a people for Himself, but that purpose is for the glory of God.
 
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