Dispensation of Heresy documentary.

[Yeshua1]

The Jews in the land at this present time are there in unbelief. There will be individual (and therefore corporate) salvation for the Jews at the 2nd Coming, in fulfillment of prophecy: "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn" (Zech. 12:10).


Okay, I'll interact with you. So, not millennial reign of Christ? No fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant? That's a very unusual view.

I hold to an historical premil viewpoint, so the Jews alive at time of the Second Coming shall all get saved. as that is when the fountain is opened in Jerusalem and Ezekiel fulfilled about Israel reborn again!

 

[Yeshua1]

The Jews are blinded to benefit Gentiles, per Paul’s teaching in Romans. At some point, prior to 2nd coming and probably during tribulation, the veil will be lifted and Jews (generally but probably not totally: though I pray for total conversation of all Jews) will recognize Jesus as their Messiah and come to salvation by faith in Jesus.

In this way, all “Israel” (those chosen by God, both Jew and Gentile: the “Israel of God”) will be saved. This will fulfill all prophecy concerning Jews and Davidic covenant.

The millennial (1000 year) reign of Christ is a symbolic reference to a never ending reign; consistent with the Hebrew understanding 1000 as a number too large to count.

I welcome your comments. I am always ready to be convinced I am mistaken by scripture. Thanks for interacting in a respectful manner which I knew you would.

peace to you

The Messianic Age as foretold by the OT Prophets though has never yet been set up on earth!

 

[canadyjd]

Then you fail to distinguish between the Kingdom of God and the Davidic Kingdom.


Great.

Yes, I suppose I do. All prophecy concerning the Davidic Kingdom is fulfilled in the person of Jesus.

After the 2nd coming, there is no kingdom on earth because there is no earth. Destroyed by fire.

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, I suppose I do. All prophecy concerning the Davidic Kingdom is fulfilled in the person of Jesus.

After the 2nd coming, there is no kingdom on earth because there is no earth. Destroyed by fire.

peace to you

Except that Jesus as of yet not able to rule over His fathers David throne!

 

[canadyjd]

Looks post-millennial to me. And the idea that 1000 is always symbolic is to me a copout. But there was nothing on the website that I could find that indicated your meaning of 1000 as indicating a great number. I've never run across that idea before.

Well, i found it with a quick search of meaning of 1000 in Hebrew language. I don’t think it is unique to me.

I think it more likely a version of a-millennial since I see the 1000 year reign as symbolic.

peace to you

 

[John of Japan]

Yes, I suppose I do. All prophecy concerning the Davidic Kingdom is fulfilled in the person of Jesus.

After the 2nd coming, there is no kingdom on earth because there is no earth. Destroyed by fire.

peace to you

So then, you see no literal fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant, correct? To me, that makes God someone who fudges about His promises, especially to the Jews. "Yes, my chosen people, I will again put someone on the throne of David. Ha ha, I fooled you! I didn't really mean it."

 

[John of Japan]

Well, i found it with a quick search of meaning of 1000 in Hebrew language. I don’t think it is unique to me.

I think it more likely a version of a-millennial since I see the 1000 year reign as symbolic.

peace to you

Okay. But it's illogical.

 

[canadyjd]

Except that Jesus as of yet not able to rule over His fathers David throne!

Jesus reigns in heaven.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

So then, you see no literal fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant, correct? To me, that makes God someone who fudges about His promises, especially to the Jews. "Yes, my chosen people, I will again put someone on the throne of David. Ha ha, I fooled you! I didn't really mean it."

Well no, I don’t see God “fudging” His promises. All promises are fulfilled in Jesus.

The only throne after the 2nd coming is God’s throne in heaven and, quite frankly, that throne may be a symbolic representation to of heaven where emphasis is on God reigning.

God, and heaven, is so unlike anything we have ever experienced that God must condescend to us by using language we can understand. This we see “King” and “Kingdoms” and “reigning” which conveys truth that we can understand but certainly isn’t the full truth of an experience we cannot understand this side of heaven.

peace to you

 

[John of Japan]

Well no, I don’t see God “fudging” His promises. All promises are fulfilled in Jesus.

The only throne after the 2nd coming is God’s throne in heaven and, quite frankly, that throne may be a symbolic representation to of heaven where emphasis is on God reigning.

God, and heaven, is so unlike anything we have ever experienced that God must condescend to us by using language we can understand. This we see “King” and “Kingdoms” and “reigning” which conveys truth that we can understand but certainly isn’t the full truth of an experience we cannot understand this side of heaven.

peace to you

Okay. I'll just agree to disagree here. God bless. Have to go teach.

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus reigns in heaven.

peace to you

Yes, but he has yet to establish his throne over earth here!

 

[canadyjd]

Yes, but he has yet to establish his throne over earth here!

After 2nd coming no earth, destroyed by fire. There is only heaven.

All prophecy fulfilled in Christ.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Okay. But it's illogical.

I’m surprised you find a study of biblical language to be “illogical”.

Either the use of 1000 in the Hebrew language is a general expression of a very large number or it isn’t. There are a couple of other uses depending on the context.

The link directly addresses specific use of 1000 throughout scripture including Revelation.

As I said, I don’t know much about the site, but the study on 1000 reflects my beliefs well enough.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Dispensationalists use the word exactly like it is in the Bible: a stewardship. Perhaps you are not understanding the meaning of the word as a stewardship. Many wrongly think that in dispensational theology a dispensation is an age, but that is mistaken......

That is interesting. I have believed dispensational theology referred to “age” and “dispensation” as interchangeable. I stand corrected.

We agree then that when Paul uses the word “dispensation” he is referring to the stewardship of his ministry of the gospel in general and his role as Apostle to the Gentiles in particular.

peace to you

 

[37818]

The promise of an everlasting earthly throne cannot be until the New Neaven and New Earth.

 

[John of Japan]

That is interesting. I have believed dispensational theology referred to “age” and “dispensation” as interchangeable. I stand corrected.

We agree then that when Paul uses the word “dispensation” he is referring to the stewardship of his ministry of the gospel in general and his role as Apostle to the Gentiles in particular.

peace to you

My students are taking a break after their test before my last lecture, so I can briefly comment.

The Biblical meaning of the word sometimes translated "dispensation" (oikonomia, οἰκονομια) 4 times is "stewardship," and it is also translated that way three times in Luke 16. The theological concept (in various theologies, not just dispensationalism, is a responsibility, a stewardship given to some group or individual or another. In Dispensationalism, the group is the human race. God gives a responsibility, and then brings judgement when Mankind fails. This always glorifies God, showing Him to be right and good in all that He does.

It is a common and very basic error to think that "dispensation" means "age." However, that is a misunderstanding of the theology, and to me this mistake negates any criticism of the theology until the critic figures it out.

 

[John of Japan]

I’m surprised you find a study of biblical language to be “illogical”.

Either the use of 1000 in the Hebrew language is a general expression of a very large number or it isn’t. There are a couple of other uses depending on the context.

No, what is illogical is the idea that 1000 means a great number in Hebrew, when far greater numbers occur throughout the whole Bible. Here are just such cases in only Exodus:
Ex 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
Ex 38:25 And the silver of them that were numbered of the congregation was an hundred talents, and a thousand seven hundred and threescore and fifteen shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
Ex 38:26 A bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.
Ex 38:28 And of the thousand seven hundred seventy and five shekels he made hooks for the pillars, and overlaid their chapiters, and filleted them.
Ex 38:29 And the brass of the offering was seventy talents, and two thousand and four hundred shekels.

I suggest that "ten thousand times ten thousand" is far more likely to be the Hebrew statement of an uncountable number. Or even dust, as in Num. 23:10, "Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!" And there are other possibilities.

 

[Yeshua1]

No, what is illogical is the idea that 1000 means a great number in Hebrew, when far greater numbers occur throughout the whole Bible. Here are just such cases in only Exodus:
Ex 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
Ex 38:25 And the silver of them that were numbered of the congregation was an hundred talents, and a thousand seven hundred and threescore and fifteen shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
Ex 38:26 A bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.
Ex 38:28 And of the thousand seven hundred seventy and five shekels he made hooks for the pillars, and overlaid their chapiters, and filleted them.
Ex 38:29 And the brass of the offering was seventy talents, and two thousand and four hundred shekels.

I suggest that "ten thousand times ten thousand" is far more likely to be the Hebrew statement of an uncountable number. Or even dust, as in Num. 23:10, "Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!" And there are other possibilities.

Those who do not see the Millennium as being future have to get that as symbolic of a long time, for to them been in Messianic Age 2000 years now!

 

[canadyjd]

No, what is illogical is the idea that 1000 means a great number in Hebrew, when far greater numbers occur throughout the whole Bible. Here are just such cases in only Exodus:
Ex 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
Ex 38:25 And the silver of them that were numbered of the congregation was an hundred talents, and a thousand seven hundred and threescore and fifteen shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
Ex 38:26 A bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.
Ex 38:28 And of the thousand seven hundred seventy and five shekels he made hooks for the pillars, and overlaid their chapiters, and filleted them.
Ex 38:29 And the brass of the offering was seventy talents, and two thousand and four hundred shekels.

I suggest that "ten thousand times ten thousand" is far more likely to be the Hebrew statement of an uncountable number. Or even dust, as in Num. 23:10, "Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!" And there are other possibilities.

The numbers you noted are very exact, not general numbers, that were meant to be an accurate account of the Exodus.

Samson slew a thousand men with the jaw bone of a donkey. Was it exactly 1000 men, or just a whole bunch they didn’t take the time to count?

Saul slew thousands and David slew ten thousands. Were these exact numbers or a general way of expressing that David slew more than Saul?

The link I gave you, which you requested, gives many examples of how the number 1000 is used to express an undetermined but very large number. It was easy for me to find.

Have mercy on the students, just a little.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Those who do not see the Millennium as being future have to get that as symbolic of a long time, for to them been in Messianic Age 2000 years now!

One of the points made on the link I found was that Revelation doesn’t say that Christ reigns for 1000 years, but rather those that died during the tribulation will reign with Christ for 1000 years. It does not limit Christ’s reign to 1000 years.

The focus, or context of the passage, is on the reward given to those who endured the tribulation: they will get to reign with Christ for 1000 years. Christ reign is eternal.

peace to you