Dispensation of Heresy documentary.

[Yeshua1]

I checked several places in the film, just to be fair. At one point they talk about kabbalah. What in the world does that have to do with the subject? I really didn't want to find out, so I skipped some more.

Then at the end, we have the notorious pastor Steve Anderson preaching. If you want to be associated with Steve Anderson, go ahead, but I certainly won't.

Isn't he mr KJVO?

 

[Yeshua1]

I've heard from dispensationalists that there was dispensation/s where one was saved by works.

Held by Scofield, in the 1917 study notes!

 

[MB]

Calvinism NOT heresy, but full free will Gospel is!

You are always spewing things out of your mouth you can't prove. I'm laughing at you. You are deceived and you can't tell that you are because you reject the Word of God for the sayings of men. The great philosopher.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

I’m sure my understanding of dispensation theology is limited, so maybe you can help me.

Do you believe there is a separate future for national Israel and the church?

If so, how is that belief reconciled with Paul’s teaching in Eph. that Christ abolished the OT law and made Jews and Gentiles “one new man” in Christ by His death on the cross.

If the “one new man” is separated into two groups once again doesn’t that require that the work of Jesus’s death in bringing the two groups together must be undone?

I don’t see how it is possible to undo this joining.

peace to you

Jews and Gentiles BOTH now saved in NC by grace, by same Messiah, question is does God still have any promises to fulfill to national Israel or not?

 

[canadyjd]

I would not put it that way. I believe that there is a salvation future for Israel at the time of the 2nd Coming. At that time


Dispensationalism does not deny that Christ fulfilled (not abolished; Matt. 5:17) the law. It does not deny that Jews and Gentiles are all one in Christ through His death on the cross. You are saying these things without giving any actual quotes from dispensationalists, so I am answering them simply.


I don't see how it is possible to undo that either. I don't get what your point is in reference to dispensationalism. Do you have any quotes for me to interact with?

I have no quotes. I’m just trying to understand dispensational theology.

When you say there is a “salvation future” for Israel at the 2nd coming of Jesus, what exactly does that mean?

Let me tell you what I believe, based on my understanding of scripture and you can interact with me. I believe there is a post trib rapture. That’s the end of this life, next comes the judgement, destruction of the earth, then eternal life in heaven.

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

You are always spewing things out of your mouth you can't prove. I'm laughing at you. You are deceived and you can't tell that you are because you reject the Word of God for the sayings of men. The great philosopher.
MB

Jesus and Paul were great Philosophers?

 

[MB]

Jesus and Paul were great Philosophers?

Neither were Philosophers Paul was a dispensationalist Didn't you read the verses I posted.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Neither were Philosophers Paul was a dispensationalist Didn't you read the verses I posted.
MB

Paul was inspired in his theology, neither Calvin nor Scofield were in theirs!

 

[canadyjd]

Neither were Philosophers Paul was a dispensationalist Didn't you read the verses I posted.
MB

Just because Paul used a Greek word for “dispensation” doesn’t mean he supported or taught what modern dispensation theology teaches.

Perhaps showing that connection could help with understanding your point.

peace to you

 

[John of Japan]

I have read though where some who teach Dispy have up to 7 resurrections, and that Jews under OC saved by law, and us now by grace!

Never heard of 7 resurrections. Normative dispensationalism does not believe in more than one way of salvation.

 

[37818]

1560, Geneva Bible, 1 Corinthians 9:17, "For if I do it willingly, I haue a reward, but if I do it against my will, notwithstanding the dispensation is committed vnto me."

 

[John of Japan]

I have no quotes. I’m just trying to understand dispensational theology.

When you say there is a “salvation future” for Israel at the 2nd coming of Jesus, what exactly does that mean?

The Jews in the land at this present time are there in unbelief. There will be individual (and therefore corporate) salvation for the Jews at the 2nd Coming, in fulfillment of prophecy: "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn" (Zech. 12:10).

Let me tell you what I believe, based on my understanding of scripture and you can interact with me. I believe there is a post trib rapture. That’s the end of this life, next comes the judgement, destruction of the earth, then eternal life in heaven.

peace to you

Okay, I'll interact with you. So, not millennial reign of Christ? No fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant? That's a very unusual view.

 

[John of Japan]

Just because Paul used a Greek word for “dispensation” doesn’t mean he supported or taught what modern dispensation theology teaches.

Perhaps showing that connection could help with understanding your point.

peace to you

Dispensationalists use the word exactly like it is in the Bible: a stewardship. Perhaps you are not understanding the meaning of the word as a stewardship. Many wrongly think that in dispensational theology a dispensation is an age, but that is mistaken.

"The Bible does name two dispensations in the same way that dispensationalists do (and implies a third). Granted, it does not name seven, but since it does name two, perhaps there is something to this teaching called dispensationalism" (Charles Ryrie, Dispensationalism, p. 32).

 

[canadyjd]

The Jews in the land at this present time are there in unbelief. There will be individual (and therefore corporate) salvation for the Jews at the 2nd Coming, in fulfillment of prophecy: "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn" (Zech. 12:10).


Okay, I'll interact with you. So, not millennial reign of Christ? No fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant? That's a very unusual view.

The Jews are blinded to benefit Gentiles, per Paul’s teaching in Romans. At some point, prior to 2nd coming and probably during tribulation, the veil will be lifted and Jews (generally but probably not totally: though I pray for total conversation of all Jews) will recognize Jesus as their Messiah and come to salvation by faith in Jesus.

In this way, all “Israel” (those chosen by God, both Jew and Gentile: the “Israel of God”) will be saved. This will fulfill all prophecy concerning Jews and Davidic covenant.

The millennial (1000 year) reign of Christ is a symbolic reference to a never ending reign; consistent with the Hebrew understanding 1000 as a number too large to count.

I welcome your comments. I am always ready to be convinced I am mistaken by scripture. Thanks for interacting in a respectful manner which I knew you would.

peace to you

 

[John of Japan]

The Jews are blinded to benefit Gentiles, per Paul’s teaching in Romans. At some point, prior to 2nd coming and probably during tribulation, the veil will be lifted and Jews (generally but probably not totally: though I pray for total conversation of all Jews) will recognize Jesus as their Messiah and come to salvation by faith in Jesus.

In this way, all “Israel” (those chosen by God, both Jew and Gentile: the “Israel of God”) will be saved. This will fulfill all prophecy concerning Jews and Davidic covenant.

The millennial (1000 year) reign of Christ is a symbolic reference to a never ending reign; consistent with the Hebrew understanding 1000 as a number too large to count.

I welcome your comments. I am always ready to be convinced I am mistaken by scripture. Thanks for interacting in a respectful manner which I knew you would.

peace to you

Happy to interact with you.

What makes your position unusual is the literal interpretation of tribulation passages, but the allegorical interpretation of the millennial reign of Christ. Perhaps we should explore why you believe the Davidic Covenant will not be ratified by the Lord as King, in spite of the many passages that prophesy that. If there is no millennial reign of Christ, is the Davidic Covenant dead and gone?

Do you have a source for saying that to the Hebrews 1000 is "a number too large to count"? This seems false, since many, many times in the OT there were numbers given far above 1000.

The disciples and other Jews based their belief in a Messiah on the Davidic passages, of which there are many. Here are just a couple: 1 Kings 2:45, 9:5, Luke 1:32, Acts 1:6-7, and many others.

 

[Van]

Good to see some actual discussion of the various views of Dispensationalism. Usually the threads are just a bashfest by deniers of the millennial kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

 

[canadyjd]

Happy to interact with you.

What makes your position unusual is the literal interpretation of tribulation passages, but the allegorical interpretation of the millennial reign of Christ. Perhaps we should explore why you believe the Davidic Covenant will not be ratified by the Lord as King, in spite of the many passages that prophesy that. If there is no millennial reign of Christ, is the Davidic Covenant dead and gone?

Do you have a source for saying that to the Hebrews 1000 is "a number too large to count"? This seems false, since many, many times in the OT there were numbers given far above 1000.

The disciples and other Jews based their belief in a Messiah on the Davidic passages, of which there are many. Here are just a couple: 1 Kings 2:45, 9:5, Luke 1:32, Acts 1:6-7, and many others.

I believe the 3-fold “office” of Jesus as prophet, priest and King. Jesus is King already and will reign forever in heaven.

I’ll get back to you concerning 1000 as a number too high to count.

peace to you

 

[John of Japan]

I believe the 3-fold “office” of Jesus as prophet, priest and King. Jesus is King already and will reign forever in heaven.

Then you fail to distinguish between the Kingdom of God and the Davidic Kingdom.

I’ll get back to you concerning 1000 as a number too high to count.

peace to you

Great.

 

[canadyjd]

www.scripturerevealed.com has a good section on use of the number 1000.

I don’t know anything about the site, but a brief reading seems to reflect my beliefs well enough.

peace to you

 

[John of Japan]

www.scripturerevealed.com has a good section on use of the number 1000.

I don’t know anything about the site, but a brief reading seems to reflect my beliefs well enough.

peace to you

Looks post-millennial to me. And the idea that 1000 is always symbolic is to me a copout. But there was nothing on the website that I could find that indicated your meaning of 1000 as indicating a great number. I've never run across that idea before.