Dispensationalism

This statement is probably incorrect.
The Messanic Jews (a Jew who believes Jesus is the Messiah) i've talked
to (three of them) agree that there will be NO GENTILE saved in the
Tribulation period. They say it by saying: "When the last Gentile that is
going to be saved is saved then the pretribulation rapture of the church
will take place." I think in the Tribulation period a gentile can be
saved, but none will take advantage of it. BTW, you note this totally
blows the idea of many pretribbers of the noble gentiles who miss the
pretribulation rapture, believe in Jesus afterwards, and go around tricking
the the Antichrist and his lackys -- the stuff that makes millions
of dollars but is built on 100% HOT AIR.

I agree that this is incorrect. 144K zealots will be globally dispersed proclaiming the Gospel, reaping many many converts.

I would not label it the Gentile Age, but the Age of Grace, where there is no Jew or Gentile, but all one under Christ.

 

hillclimber quote

"144K zealots will be globally dispersed proclaiming the Gospel, reaping many many converts."

No way and no where does it say they evangelize, rather they are caught up to God's throne the same moment the Church is caught up to Christ.

What happened to the Revelation chronology I gave you, did you throw it out?

 

Whomever Hillclimber quoted:
"I cannot think of any books written before 1800
which address dispensationalism, can you?"

Hillclimber: "No I cannot, but I'm not a history buff.
I was even unaware of Darby
and his work before coming on this board."

I find it very strange that the main advocates of
dispensationalism are the anti-dispensationalists???
Why is it all we on the Baptist Board seem to know about
dispensationalism came from anti-dispensationalists???
I also find that the anti-dispensationalists, in building
their strawmen appear to be more prone to make easy to burn
strawmen than accurate representations.


Chemnitz on Dispensational flaws:
//1. Dispensationalism teaches that the Messiah and His kingdom
promised in the Old Testament are essentially political in nature. In this respect it
takes a position which resembles the Messianic expectation of first-century
Judaism. Christ's atoning work on the cross is not central in God's plan according
to this view. Rather, He is wrongly perceived as, coming to set up a this-worldly
kingdom, and when rejected, as postponing it.//

A dispensationalist said, and I agree:
//Christ's atoning work is central to all of His saints. He did
come and they (Israel) recieved Him not. He returned to heaven.
He is sitting at the right hand of the Father, ready to return in judgement.//

This also distorts all the dispensationalism i've ever looked at.

Chemnitz on Dispensational flaws:
//2. The view regards the Messianic age as only a future reality. It tends to
exchange the "now" for a "not yet," thereby depriving people of the comforting
promises of the Gospel in the present. In truth, Christ inaugurated the kingdom of
heaven at His first advent, a kingdom which is now ours by faith even while it is
yet hidden under the cross until its consummation at Christ's second advent.//

Utter nonsense. I find three kingdoms of God:
1. the kingdom of God that dwells within us NOW
2. the future physical Kingdom of God on earth AKA: Millinnial Kingdom of Christ
3. the eternal Kingdom of God (i.e. heaven or the New Jerusalem)

Actually this seems more of an attack on Futurism than on
Dispensationalism. I wish the anti-dispensationalism could figure out
what it is they are attacking

Chemnitz on Dispensational flaws:
//3. Dispensational premillennialism tends to regard the glory of God as the center
of theology, rather than the mercy of God revealed, and yet hidden, in the
suffering and death of Jesus on the cross for the sins of the world. The visible
manifestations of God's power at the end of history and obedience to the will of
God become the primary foci, instead of the grace of God revealed in the cross not at all
of Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 2:2)--which by faith the Christian regards and accepts as
the place of God's definitive triumph over sin and every evil (in Lutheran
theology, the "theology of the cross" as opposed to a "theology of glory").//

The mercy of God revealed in Jesus is the Glory of God.
So this is a mischaracterisation of dispensationalism.

Chemnitz on Dispensational flaws:
//4. Dispensational premillennialism underestimates, and even ignores, the
significance of Biblical typology. All prophecy points to Jesus Christ as the
fulfillment. He is the antitype of the Old Testament types. When the reality to
which the Old Testament points does come, one cannot revert back to the
"shadows," such as the Old Testament temple (Col. 2:16-17; Heb. 10:1).//

Typology is more prevelant in dispensationalism than among
anti-dispensational doctrines.

Chemnitz on Dispensational flaws:
//5. The compartmentalization of Scripture into distinct dispensations seriously
overlooks the Law/Gospel unity of the Old and New Testaments. For example, it
makes a radical distinction between the Mosaic "law" period and the church age
of "grace." The relationship between the Old and New Testaments is that of
promise and fulfillment, not one of distinct dispensations.//

I like what a dispensationalist said to this:
//Yes it does...To His glory and our benefit.//
Amen, Brother whomever -- Preach it!

 

Ed,
When I question the Kingdom, it is the promised Kingdom where Christ is reining from David's throne in Israel I am referring. I get the distinct impression that many Baptists believe we are either in that promised Kingdom and are somehow spiritual Israel, or maybe they are meaning we are in God's overall cosmos that they are calling His kingdom. I could tolerate the latter, though it doesn't mean much.

 

I do like the way Pastor Larry describes, what I have called the "change of plans, or the postponement" into

IT would be unfortunate for you to conclude that the church was a change of plans. God, who knows all things exhaustively, was not surprised by Isreal's rejection. In fact, he prophesied it (Isa 6) and I would say even caused it, in a sense.