DISPENSATIONALISM

[37818]

Dispensationialism seeks to re-erect it.

Not Biblical dispensationalism.

 

[robycop3]

Christians are the True Jews because we have been set free from the Law. Whether we refer to ourselves as Christians or Spiritual Israel is a matter of semantics. They are interchangeable terms. The point is that there is only one "people of God", and only one way to salvation - through faith. Even the "heroes" listed in Hebrews 11 were justified by their faith. There is no special advantage for the Israeli race.

Well, actually, the Israelis, especially the Jews, had some advantages. Jesus, as a man, was a Jew. He preached & performed miracles among the Jews first. But the rejection of Jesus as Messiah & Savior by the Jews, culminating in the murder of Jesus, is what brought their great punishment upon them.

 

[AustinC]

Not Biblical dispensationalism.

I would argue that there is no biblical dispensationalism. There is covenant with God.

 

[Lodic]

Well, actually, the Israelis, especially the Jews, had some advantages. Jesus, as a man, was a Jew. He preached & performed miracles among the Jews first. But the rejection of Jesus as Messiah & Savior by the Jews, culminating in the murder of Jesus, is what brought their great punishment upon them.

For once, I must actually agree with you, Brother. Thank you for the correction.

 

[kyredneck]

Outside of Christ, who has "done the law" so that they stand before God, justified by their works?

Every heavenly born child of God is by nature a doer of the law:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

...they fulfill the law because God has put the golden rule (Matthew 7:12) in their heart:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

 

[AustinC]

Every heavenly born child of God is by nature a doer of the law:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

...they fulfill the law because God has put the golden rule (Matthew 7:12) in their heart:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

Paul, in Romans 2, is showing that whether you have the written law or not, the moral law is made known to men. Men may do things found in the law, but they still break the law and thereby fall short of obedience to the law.
The legal argument Paul is brilliantly arguing in Romans is that there is no justification apart from receiving the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ and believing that this imputed righteousness paid our debt by faith. Therefore we are justified by faith alone.

 

[kyredneck]

Paul, in Romans 2, is showing that whether you have the written law or not, the moral law

Wrong. The entire context concerns THE LAW, not some made up namby-pamby 'moral code':

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them);
16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
17 But if thou bearest the name of a Jew, and restest upon the law, and gloriest in God,
18 and knowest his will, and approvest the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,
19 and art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them that are in darkness,
20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having in the law the form of knowledge and of the truth;
21 thou therefore that teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou rob temples?
23 thou who gloriest in the law, through thy transgression of the law dishonorest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you, even as it is written.
25 For circumcision indeed profiteth, if thou be a doer of the law: but if thou be a transgressor of the law, thy circumcision is become uncircumcision.
26 If therefore the uncircumcision keep the ordinances of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned for circumcision?
27 and shall not the uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who with the letter and circumcision art a transgressor of the law?

 

[AustinC]

Wrong. The entire context concerns THE LAW, not some made up namby-pamby 'moral code':

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them);
16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
17 But if thou bearest the name of a Jew, and restest upon the law, and gloriest in God,
18 and knowest his will, and approvest the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,
19 and art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them that are in darkness,
20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having in the law the form of knowledge and of the truth;
21 thou therefore that teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou rob temples?
23 thou who gloriest in the law, through thy transgression of the law dishonorest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you, even as it is written.
25 For circumcision indeed profiteth, if thou be a doer of the law: but if thou be a transgressor of the law, thy circumcision is become uncircumcision.
26 If therefore the uncircumcision keep the ordinances of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned for circumcision?
27 and shall not the uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who with the letter and circumcision art a transgressor of the law?

What was the written code (law) before Mt Sinai? Was Abraham justified by faith or by the law?

 

[kyredneck]

What was the written code (law) before Mt Sinai? Was Abraham justified by faith or by the law?

Abraham was declared righteous by faith and works. He was NOT declared righteous by ‘faith alone’.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

There is NO SUCH THING as justification by ‘faith alone’ to be found in the scriptures. The Reformers erred and you doggedly parrot their error.

 

[AustinC]

Abraham was declared righteous by faith and works. He was NOT declared righteous by ‘faith alone’.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

There is NO SUCH THING as justification by ‘faith alone’ to be found in the scriptures. The Reformers erred and you doggedly parrot their error.

Again, you don't understand what Paul is arguing.

Faith does good works. It is an active gift from God. Abraham was justified by faith alone, not by his works. Recall that Abraham, twice, gave his wife to another man, to have sex, rather than obey God. Abraham did some bad things that are not justifiable. But, like David, God did not hold his sins against him. Why? Because God's grace is greater than the sins of a person who is justified by faith alone.

It just shocks me that you support the council of Trent.

 

[MB]

Wow. Were in the book of Romans did Paul teach one must keep the Law?

It doesn't although being a Jew is a religious sect. Just like being a Baptist To be a Jew means your religion is Judaism.
MB

 

[AustinC]

Abraham was declared righteous by faith and works. He was NOT declared righteous by ‘faith alone’.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

There is NO SUCH THING as justification by ‘faith alone’ to be found in the scriptures. The Reformers erred and you doggedly parrot their error.

Romans 3:28-30

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Paul drives home the idea that the believer is justified before God by faith alone.
Faith, however, does the work God has ordained for the believer to do. (Ephesians 2:10)

Again, it shocks me that you are embracing the Council of Trent in adding justification by works.

 

[kyredneck]

Paul drives home the idea that the believer is justified before God by faith alone.

Where? Pinpoint the verse where Paul states that justification is by faith alone.

 

[Yeshua1]

Every heavenly born child of God is by nature a doer of the law:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

...they fulfill the law because God has put the golden rule (Matthew 7:12) in their heart:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

None of us before saved were doers of the Law, as we were in rebellion state!

 

[Yeshua1]

Abraham was declared righteous by faith and works. He was NOT declared righteous by ‘faith alone’.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

There is NO SUCH THING as justification by ‘faith alone’ to be found in the scriptures. The Reformers erred and you doggedly parrot their error.

You are reading into this Catholic theology, not Baptist!

 

[Yeshua1]

Romans 3:28-30

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Paul drives home the idea that the believer is justified before God by faith alone.
Faith, however, does the work God has ordained for the believer to do. (Ephesians 2:10)

Again, it shocks me that you are embracing the Council of Trent in adding justification by works.

Trent reputiated Pauline Justification, severs grace of the Gospel!

 

[Yeshua1]

Where? Pinpoint the verse where Paul states that justification is by faith alone.

Jesus Himself answered you. what does God require? faith in the Lord Jesus period!

 

[AustinC]

Where? Pinpoint the verse where Paul states that justification is by faith alone.

I have already provided verses. How is it you struggle with this fundamental truth of the gospel?

Romans 3:10-12,20-28

as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Honestly kyredneck, if what Paul tells you explicitly and implicitly here in Romans does not persuade you that we are justified by faith alone, then nothing in the whole Bible can persuade you of anything. Paul is hitting you between the eyes with the fact we are justified by faith alone. It is of no avail for me to go any further with you in this matter. You either believe the Bible or you reject it.

Truthfully, you have no part in the Reformation if you reject justification by faith alone. You either live on a theological island of your own making or you embrace the Roman Catholic Church and its teaching of justification by faith plus works.

 

[kyredneck]

I have already provided verses.

A non-Calvinistic & non-Arminian interpretation of Romans 3:10-18 | Page 2 | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com)

 

[John of Japan]

There is no special advantage for the Israeli race.

Rom. 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.