Disrespect to baby Jesus?

[ituttut]

Like Annsni said, they're pretty. What is the purpose of having flowers on the communion table on Sunday morning?

I really don't know, but looks to be the woman's touch. What I see is the live flowers will point to when Jesus was alive on this earth, and such surely is about one's that are, or believe they are of Israel. Do we worship the man Jesus? Jesus warns the Daughters that the Tribulation period twill come, and those promised that Kingdom that was at hand will come, and those of Israel will go through it. I plan to be gone from this earth before that time, whether resurrected, or caught up.
I

Because they're pretty and appropriate for the season. Do you really think a Christmas tree conjures up images or thoughts of false gods? Do you know anyone who prays to a Christmas tree?

I have no idea what people goes on in peoples minds, but I know people bow down to it.

I don't know exactly where it came from, other than that it originated hundreds of years ago in northern Europe. Whether it has pagan or Christian origins doesn't matter. The Christmas tree today is thoroughly a part of a Christian tradition.

What can be said other than, did the tradition come from God, or did it come from man?Scripture tells us who began the practice, and we know who started Christ-mass. Billions of people today love the Christmas Tree, whether they be Christian are not. Christians did not have a Tree, i.e. until when?

 

[Mexdeaf]

I've been through nearly 55 Christmases, some spent here in the USA and some spent in another country, and I have NEVER seen anyone bow down to a Christmas tree.

 

[annsni]

I've been through nearly 55 Christmases, some spent here in the USA and some spent in another country, and I have NEVER seen anyone bow down to a Christmas tree.

I've been through 46 and I haven't either but I guess we're not looking??

 

[dcorbett]

We have a detailed Nativity scene on our communion table...I love it, not because I think Jesus is there, but is it an artist's conception of the birth of our Savior, based on scripture.

We had 6 Evergreens with white lights all around the baptistry and choir loft. Wreaths all around the auditorium.....and a tree with white lights in the entryway. They don't have decorations, they represent the time of year, winter, and the time of the Christmas celebration. There are no other decorations on those trees other than white lights....and it makes the auditorium look fantastic! Very warm and friendly for VISITORS.

The whole point - make the visitors feel the love in our church.

 

[ituttut]

There is surely a big difference between Christmas trees and the items in your list, Ann.

The bible does not say we are to have crosses, and for that reason, many churches don't have them in their buildings.

The bible also does not say we must have a table for the Lord's Supper; it would still be the Lord's Supper if the bread and wine were to be placed on a plank supported by two trestles, or on a stool.

The bible does not even mention pews. A church is no less a church if it uses ordinary chairs.

The bible does not say we have to have hymn books, but unless everyone in the congregation knows every word of every hymn sung, (and they would all have to know the same version of every hymn), the words must be available in some format, whether overhead projection/PowerPoint, or printed sheets.

The bible does not say that church buildings must have carpets. Some do, and some don't.

The bible does not say that church buildings must have lighting. Most do, for practical reasons.

The bible does not say that church buildings must have air conditioning. I'm glad about that, because I don't know a church building that does have it.

But all those things (crosses, communion tables, pews, hymnals, carpeting, lighting and air conditioning) have a practical purpose. A decorated tree does not.

I should stress that I am not saying that churches which do have Christmas trees must be pagan! :laugh:

Like your astute reasoning Brother Lamb. I am not saying they are pagan either, but have said here, or elsewhere, does this show the carnal side of Christianity by doing the same as heathens.

 

[annsni]

Like your astute reasoning Brother Lamb. I am not saying they are pagan either, but have said here, or elsewhere, does this show the carnal side of Christianity by doing the same as heathens.

The heathens also sing Christmas hymns, go to church and give gifts! Should we call these things the carnal side of Christianity?

 

[Mexdeaf]

Like your astute reasoning Brother Lamb. I am not saying they are pagan either, but have said here, or elsewhere, does this show the carnal side of Christianity by doing the same as heathens.

Well by that standard we are ALL carnal because "heathens" go to church also. Some "heathens" do not celebrate Christmas. I could go on but... really there's no need to debate this issue further.

(Ann, quit stealing my thoughts!!:laugh

 

[ituttut]

You know at the bottom of this discussion is the old arguement between:

What scripture doesn't forbid is okay

vs

What scripture doesn't specify is wrong/unwise

If you wish to deny yourself the pleasure of a Christmas, in the name of Christ, go for it!

In the same manner, I will enjoy the symbolism of the Christmas tree that resides in my foyer, in the name of Christ.

Let each person be convinced in his own mind!

Amen! Right or wrong we do what we do. Some believe Jesus was actually born on December 25, which scripture proves to be error. Some say that is fine with, for we need a Holy Day once a year to worship Jesus. Every day with Jesus works for me.

I am convinced Jesus said do this in remembrance of me, and Paul tells us the Gentile is also requested to do this. I just cannot find where Jesus said, please add to my Word, as I may have forgotten something.

 

[ituttut]

and ]annsni post]I've been through nearly 55 Christmases, some spent here in the USA and some spent in another country, and I have NEVER seen anyone bow down to a Christmas tree.

Please understand this is what I see the Bible telling me. I know most do not share the truths I find in scripture in these matters of worship in a church.

There is usually something under the tree. How many of us can stand straight legged, place presents under the tree, as well as retrieve them. A bending of the knee is required, under the tree.

The birth of Jesus is no hoax, as some may suppose, but not me. It bothers me Christian's follow the Pied Piper into a false date of the birth of Jesus. Then accepting what is not true, it is so easy to have something like a tree that we can see, handle, and bow down to. O Holy Worship what great gifts we bring.

Can't we just think for a minute, was that Roman Emperor so callous, and contemptible to have his subjects traveling great distances in the winter time to conduct the census? Should we not consider such as this to see it is foolishness that leads to error in some churches?

Almost everything about Christmas refutes what the Bible tells us about His birth. Three wise men is hogwash for the Bible says no such thing. Cards, pictures, scenes, modeled forms, and even plays will show the Wise Men on the scene when He was born. No such thing happened for it was a couple years before the Wise Men arrived in that neck of the woods.

But as so many seem to say, such a pretty sight to see by the eyes of many. We see in the Garden the Woman first adds to the Word of God. Second the fruit was pleasant, so pretty to the eye, so the forbidden Tree was desired. Oh how I wish she had not partaken of that tree.

 

[annsni]

There is usually something under the tree. How many of us can stand straight legged, place presents under the tree, as well as retrieve them. A bending of the knee is required, under the tree.

Seriously? So then I worship the toilet bowl, my kitchen table, the wall when I clean the radiators and my bed as well??? What a ridiculous assumption!!! OH - and I also worshipped my kids when I bended my knee to them - to tie their shoes!

 

[ituttut]

The heathens also sing Christmas hymns, go to church and give gifts! Should we call these things the carnal side of Christianity?

If I I understand you correctly, the unsaved, if they are in church go into the church so they can be with their Tree.


.

 

[ituttut]

We have a detailed Nativity scene on our communion table...I love it, not because I think Jesus is there, but is it an artist's conception of the birth of our Savior, based on scripture.

We had 6 Evergreens with white lights all around the baptistry and choir loft. Wreaths all around the auditorium.....and a tree with white lights in the entryway. They don't have decorations, they represent the time of year, winter, and the time of the Christmas celebration. There are no other decorations on those trees other than white lights....and it makes the auditorium look fantastic! Very warm and friendly for VISITORS.

The whole point - make the visitors feel the love in our church.

I do agree dcorbett, Love is so important.

 

[ituttut]

Well by that standard we are ALL carnal because "heathens" go to church also. Some "heathens" do not celebrate Christmas. I could go on but... really there's no need to debate this issue further.

You are right. Our views have been put forth, and we each believe what we believe according to our faith.

 

[ituttut]

Seriously? So then I worship the toilet bowl, my kitchen table, the wall when I clean the radiators and my bed as well??? What a ridiculous assumption!!! OH - and I also worshipped my kids when I bended my knee to them - to tie their shoes!

Is your church in you house where others come to worship? May I say in context of what we are talking about, you only do these things once a year at Christmas? What you mention looks to be a year around thing, and not just Xmas. In the things you mention I think you are doing really well the year-round washing, keeping things clean. Evidently your children need help, so you bow down to help them. How much help does a Tree need? It can't talk, and it can't walk, and it cannot love you back.

 

[annsni]

Is your church in you house where others come to worship? May I say in context of what we are talking about, you only do these things once a year at Christmas? What you mention looks to be a year around thing, and not just Xmas. In the things you mention I think you are doing really well the year-round washing, keeping things clean. Evidently your children need help, so you bow down to help them. How much help does a Tree need? It can't talk, and it can't walk, and it cannot love you back.

But according to you, bending the knee to adjust a tree or to put presents under it means that one is worshipping it. Just today, I had to get on my hands and knees to move a screen for church (which happens to be in a hotel). I also had to get on my knees to plug in something to the sound system.

Again, saying that because one kneels in front of a tree they are worshipping it is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Baptist4life]

Is your church in you house where others come to worship? May I say in context of what we are talking about, you only do these things once a year at Christmas? What you mention looks to be a year around thing, and not just Xmas. In the things you mention I think you are doing really well the year-round washing, keeping things clean. Evidently your children need help, so you bow down to help them. How much help does a Tree need? It can't talk, and it can't walk, and it cannot love you back.

I think it's dishonoring to spell Xmas instead of CHRISTmas!

 

[annsni]

I think it's dishonoring to spell Xmas instead of CHRISTmas!

http://www.ligonier.org/blog/does-xmas-really-take-christ-out-christmas/

 

[David Lamb]

http://www.ligonier.org/blog/does-xmas-really-take-christ-out-christmas/

I was just about to say the same thing, Ann, but your link says it so much better!

 

[annsni]

I was just about to say the same thing, Ann, but your link says it so much better!

I posted it on Facebook too. I think sometimes we get on a bandwagon for something that is small but neglect the fact that there are people who need Jesus!!!

 

[freeatlast]

I posted it on Facebook too. I think sometimes we get on a bandwagon for something that is small but neglect the fact that there are people who need Jesus!!!

We need to be on the bandwagon instead of the liberal path some take. The world is not into the Greek! The X that removes the word "Christ" is not done because of the Greek. It is done to take Christ out of Christmas and not offend certain unbelievers. While RC may be considered a great apologist he is a lousy leader for the preservation of the truth in this instance. Those who hope to spread their liberal agenda as they jump on board with the lost to rid the world of the meaning of Christmas try and justify their agenda with clever words like that of RC.