Divorce and Remarriage before Salvation

[Zaac]

*sigh*

Here we go again. It isn't legalism to tell an adulterer to stop living in adultery, and how to do so. I'll bet you'd want folks to stop stealing from you—LEGALIST! *rolls eyes*

Told yall that I'm more Biblically conservative than the political conservatives on here. When it hits close to home, you'll notice that political conservatives aren't necessarily BIBLICAL conservatives.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Told yall that I'm more Biblically conservative than the political conservatives on here. When it hits close to home, you'll notice that political conservatives aren't necessarily BIBLICAL conservatives.

Hi Brotehr Zaac (AKA Robust),

I agree that when one marries another after the first marriage, but before the death of the 2nd spouse it is adultery. Scripture plainly declares, "So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man." (Romans 7:3). I do believe Christ makes an exception for cases of divorce that were the result of fornication by one of the spouses, "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery:" (Matthew 19:9). I am a member of a Primitive Baptist church and we will not receive members into the church who did were remarried and the first marriage that resulted in divorce was not a result of adultery on the innocent party's spouse. If the Lord gives them desire they may attend, but they may not join lest it give someone reason to bring insult/repoach upon the church. (I should clarify I do not think anyone in my church would maintain such a person who remarried in cases of divorce that resulted from reasons other than adultery cannot be saved).

Marriage is of course a picture of the covenant of Christ and her bride the church, this is why God "hates" divorce. Unfortunately this doctrine of marriage and remarriage is rarely taught or believed by many churches today and perhaps not even known of by many Christians as a result. Incidentally, I noticed that you attend First Baptist Woodstock. I use to live in Woodstock, GA. What is their policy of receiving in members who were divorced for unlawful reasons? The reasons I ask is because I know they have thousands of attendants, thus I would think by the shear volume alone they would have many who are in such situations who desire to join?

On a side note, I am just curious, but why the 2 different usernames? (Robust and zaac)

God bless and happy New year wishes,

Brother Joe

 

[Zaac]

Hi Brotehr Zaac (AKA Robust),

I agree that when one marries another after the first marriage, but before the death of the 2nd spouse it is adultery. Scripture plainly declares, "So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man." (Romans 7:3). I do believe Christ makes an exception for cases of divorce that were the result of fornication by one of the spouses, "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery:" (Matthew 19:9). I am a member of a Primitive Baptist church and we will not receive members into the church who did were remarried and the first marriage that resulted in divorce was not a result of adultery on the innocent party's spouse. If the Lord gives them desire they may attend, but they may not join lest it give someone reason to bring insult upon the church. (I should clarify I do not think anyone in my church would maintain such a person who remarried in cases of divorce that resulted from reasons other than adultery cannot be saved).

I believe this to be Biblical.Thumbsup

Marriage is of course a picture of the covenant of Christ and her bride the church, this is why God "hates" divorce. Unfortunately this doctrine of marriage and remarriage is rarely taught or believed by many churches today and perhaps not even known of by many Christians as a result. Incidentally, I noticed that you attend First Baptist Woodstock. I use to live in Woodstock, GA. What is their policy of receiving in members who were divorced for unlawful reasons? The reasons I ask is because I know they have thousands of attendants, thus I would think by the shear volume alone they would have many who are in such situations who desire to join?

I would imagine there are probably quite a few there who are in that boat. I'm not sure what the church's official position is on that. I do believe that if you have been divorced and your spouse is still alive and the divorce wasn't because of one of the exception reasons, you are not allowed to be in a position of leadership at First Baptist.

I wonder if they ask married couples this when they are joining or transferring letters?

On a side note, I am just curious, but why the 2 different usernames? (Robust and zaac)

I've got one username and only one. There are simply members here who THINK that Robust and I are the same person. We are not.


God bless and Happy New Year to you and yours also.

 

[evenifigoalone]

My parents got rejected from a Christian health insurance group because both of them had had previous marriages. Though, my mom's case was one of adultery.....not sure about my dad's, though. I don't know anything about that part of my dad's past, except that it happened and he wasn't saved at the time.
I guess if not then my parents were sinning by getting married, except that I believe their union was one blessed by God and my mother had prayed for direction and someone to provide the role of a father figure for my brother and I, who were still very young children. Along came my dad a few years down the road, and I am grateful he was in my life.
Though perhaps I should not be laying this out on a public forum...apologies, I tend to turn to personal stuff in order to think through things.

If it was a previous marriage before salvation and there's no going back to that previous marriage, it seems kinda...IDK. Hm...if the other person also moved on and remarried, would the adultery clause apply in that case? If they've moved on they have no intention of turning back, and trying to get them to would be hurtful, and waiting for them to maybe change their mind one day would be pointless.

 

[Aaron]

I don't recall Jesus telling her who to live with at all. Can you show me the verse?

I didn't say that. I said the implications of whom she not to be with are rather clear.

Let's say she came to you for advice. "I'm living with a man who is not my husband. What should I do?"

 

[annsni]

I didn't say that. I said the implications of whom she not to be with are rather clear.

Let's say she came to you for advice. "I'm living with a man who is not my husband. What should I do?"

As my husband said to a man who was living with the mother of his children - but she was not his wife, I'd say "So when are you going to remedy that?"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As my husband said to a man who was living with the mother of his children - but she was not his wife, I'd say "So when are you going to remedy that?"

And what dd he say?

 

[annsni]

And what dd he say?

At first he didn't say anything because he wasn't sure what my husband meant but then a discussion followed (a GOOD discussion - the man was a new believer and so the men in the car with my husband and this man encouraged the man toward godly living), the man moved out of the home into his friend's house as they prepared for a small wedding two weeks later. That was about 10 years ago.

 

[Aaron]

As my husband said to a man who was living with the mother of his children - but she was not his wife, I'd say "So when are you going to remedy that?"

And in the case we're discussing, that remedy would be . . . ?

 

[annsni]

And in the case we're discussing, that remedy would be . . . ?

To stop sleeping with a man who is not your husband. Either get married or walk away.

 

[John Toppass]

Sometimes, I wonder why we spend so much time on this subject and ignore what the Scriptures are saying.
Where is the definition of a Biblical Divorce??? Read carefully because it does not exist. Matthew 19: 3-6.
It was Moses not God that recognized divorce! Matthew 19:7-9
Divorce means that the spouse is no longer responsible for any of the care and needs, granted by marriage, to the other spouse. Polygamy was practiced then and the husband was still responsible for the care and needs of the multiple wives.
Only in the case of sexual immorality was the husband not held accountable for future needs and care of the offending spouse. That still does not mean they were not married in God's eyes, it just means that the spouse had no responsibility for the future actions of the offending spouse.
It was Moses that gave in and allowed divorce. Even though man's law allows divorce it still does not relinquish the responsibilities of the husband or wives in God's eyes.

Divorce has never been a disqualifier from salvation, the only disqualifier from salvation is not accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. No man or church or any other manmade entity has a say in someone else's salvation. That is strictly between God and that person.

In fact, in the USA, it was not until the mid 1800s that marriage licenses were issued by states. This was done mainly so that property distribution among heirs had the backing of laws. The church in the 1200s, started to require that marriage must be done in the church for it to be licit. IMHO, this was a people control issue not a biblical issue.

No matter what man or his entities say about marriage, they do not have any say as to how a marriage between a husband and wife is recognized in the eyes of God.

Just let me say that I feel no woman or man should put up with or endure an abusive relationship.
Just saying.

 

[Zaac]

Sometimes, I wonder why we spend so much time on this subject and ignore what the Scriptures are saying.
Where is the definition of a Biblical Divorce??? Read carefully because it does not exist. Matthew 19: 3-6.
It was Moses not God that recognized divorce! Matthew 19:7-9
Divorce means that the spouse is no longer responsible for any of the care and needs, granted by marriage, to the other spouse. Polygamy was practiced then and the husband was still responsible for the care and needs of the multiple wives.
Only in the case of sexual immorality was the husband not held accountable for future needs and care of the offending spouse. That still does not mean they were not married in God's eyes, it just means that the spouse had no responsibility for the future actions of the offending spouse.
It was Moses that gave in and allowed divorce. Even though man's law allows divorce it still does not relinquish the responsibilities of the husband or wives in God's eyes.

Divorce has never been a disqualifier from salvation, the only disqualifier from salvation is not accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. No man or church or any other manmade entity has a say in someone else's salvation. That is strictly between God and that person.

In fact, in the USA, it was not until the mid 1800s that marriage licenses were issued by states. This was done mainly so that property distribution among heirs had the backing of laws. The church in the 1200s, started to require that marriage must be done in the church for it to be licit. IMHO, this was a people control issue not a biblical issue.

No matter what man or his entities say about marriage, they do not have any say as to how a marriage between a husband and wife is recognized in the eyes of God.

Just let me say that I feel no woman or man should put up with or endure an abusive relationship.
Just saying.

Well said.

I personally think the issue is simple. The only things that free you from a marriage are death of the spouse and one of the two exceptions Scripture points out.

But I'll say about this issue the same that people have said about other issues in the past. If you are a follower of Christ, why would you want to keep doing wrong and continue in what you were doing wrong before you were saved especially when it's pointed out to you?

Folks have said that a person cannot be a Christian and continue in homosexual acts after being saved. So can you be a Christian and continue in adultery after being saved?

It may not affect the individuals salvation, but it might just present a stumbling block for folks who have yet to be saved.

 

[evenifigoalone]

There are definitely, definitely times that it's best to terminate a relationship permanently. I suppose scripture provided the adultery clause to say "when it reaches this point, it's far enough that leaving would be justified". You have to have some sort of reference point to draw the line at, otherwise you end up with blurred lines and excuses.
Though--what about the case of obvious spousal abuse but no adultery? Does scripture say anything about that? If someone left for that justifiable (or so I would think) reason, it would seem unreasonable to say that they could never marry again. (Though they should try to sort through the emotional baggage first I would think.)

Now I'm in my early twenties and have never even dated, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about aside from having come from a broken home and learning from my parent's mistakes/example.

 

[Zaac]

There are definitely, definitely times that it's best to terminate a relationship permanently. I suppose scripture provided the adultery clause to say "when it reaches this point, it's far enough that leaving would be justified". You have to have some sort of reference point to draw the line at, otherwise you end up with blurred lines and excuses.
Though--what about the case of obvious spousal abuse but no adultery? Does scripture say anything about that?

Spousal abuse IS NOT a Biblical reason for divorce.

If someone left for that justifiable (or so I would think) reason, it would seem unreasonable to say that they could never marry again. (Though they should try to sort through the emotional baggage first I would think.)

Again, this is when you have to throw out your own reasoning and your feelings and emotion. What has an ALL-KNOWING God said? Do we really trust that He knows better than we do? If HE has said that such a person cannot marry again while the spouse is alive, who are we to say that it's unreasonable.

That line of thinking is right up there with homosexuals saying it's unreasonable to believe that a loving God would want me to go through my entire life not being in a committed, loving relationship just because I want to be in such a relationship with someone of the same sex.

God has an order. And part of that order is that He has decreed who may/may not remarry and under what conditions the marrying or not remarrying may/may not take place.

Now I'm in my early twenties and have never even dated, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about aside from having come from a broken home and learning from my parent's mistakes/example.

Questdriven, a word of advice that I've given to both the young and the old: When it comes to God's word, throw your "I feels", "I believes" and "I thinks" out the window. They are IRRELEVANT where God has spoken to an issue.

You don't have to understand the WHY? as to why HE says what HE says. Just faithfully accept it as the absolute truth.

It will cause your head to hurt, but ultimately will help you to make sense of the entirety of His word by maintaining the integrity of the WHOLE word.Thumbsup

 

[Aaron]

How a

To stop sleeping with a man who is not your husband. Either get married or walk away.

But you didn't get that from the account.

And that's my point. Mercy or not, a change in behavior is expected. You're just disagreed on what that change is.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Spousal abuse IS NOT a Biblical reason for divorce.



Again, this is when you have to throw out your own reasoning and your feelings and emotion. What has an ALL-KNOWING God said? Do we really trust that He knows better than we do? If HE has said that such a person cannot marry again while the spouse is alive, who are we to say that it's unreasonable.

That line of thinking is right up there with homosexuals saying it's unreasonable to believe that a loving God would want me to go through my entire life not being in a committed, loving relationship just because I want to be in such a relationship with someone of the same sex.

God has an order. And part of that order is that He has decreed who may/may not remarry and under what conditions the marrying or not remarrying may/may not take place.



Questdriven, a word of advice that I've given to both the young and the old: When it comes to God's word, throw your "I feels", "I believes" and "I thinks" out the window. They are IRRELEVANT where God has spoken to an issue.

You don't have to understand the WHY? as to why HE says what HE says. Just faithfully accept it as the absolute truth.

It will cause your head to hurt, but ultimately will help you to make sense of the entirety of His word by maintaining the integrity of the WHOLE word.Thumbsup

What would you suggest happen in the case where one is in a relationship where one spouse has no respect for boundaries of the other, physically or emotionally, and does not intend to change? Spousal rape exists, for example. This is fact.
It takes two to make a relationship work, if only one is taking that seriously to the point of harming the other the relationship is doing harm and not good. It is the same lack of respect and care shown in cases of adultery.

 

[preachinjesus]

We don't. But the consequences of those actions don't just go away. If the person had kids with that person, the kids don't just go away because they got divorced and saved.

Certainly children and legal obligations notwithstanding...

I think you may be doing what we are prone to do in these type situations and address it based on feelings. What does the word of God say? When HE speaks of divorce, is that only intended for the saved or is it applicable to ALL marriage?

How do we hold someone to a standard (in this instance biblical commands on fidelity and marriage) of which they wouldn't have been aware prior to salvation?

This isn't based on feelings btw, but actual real world ministry experience. Our accountability for actions suffered in the past is directly related to our spiritual condition at that time. Why is grace not the watch-word of our dealings with those who have encountered difficulty?

For instance: We have a deacon in our church who was saved in his late twenties. Prior to that he admittedly had been absorbed in addictions including drug, alcohol, and sexual. He has two children by two different women during that time period. He also declared bankruptcy once and served time in jail. He lived outside the "Bible Belt" and only encountered marginal expressions of the Gospel. During court ordered treatment he encountered a believer who shared the Gospel with him and he was saved. He then got his life on track, finished vocational schooling, got married, and has two children with his wife. He began serving faithfully in a church and has done so at the church where I get to serve when he moved into the area. Would his previous life, before faith in Christ, prohibit him from the diaconate? From pastoring?

Honestly interested in your take...or anyone else.

 

[Zaac]

Certainly children and legal obligations notwithstanding...

How do we hold someone to a standard (in this instance biblical commands on fidelity and marriage) of which they wouldn't have been aware prior to salvation?

The same way we do with salvation. Just because you may not be aware that you need to be saved does not absolve you from going to hell.

They aren't absolved of child support and they aren't absolved of the covenant just because they thought all they had to do to get out of it was get a divorce.

This isn't based on feelings btw, but actual real world ministry experience. Our accountability for actions suffered in the past is directly related to our spiritual condition at that time. Why is grace not the watch-word of our dealings with those who have encountered difficulty?

It should be. But we don't mete out said grace the same. Again, we the Church, tell homosexuals all the time that they must repent of their sin and stop committing it if they are going to be saved and in good standing in the church. Why doesn't the same apply for adulterers?

I am all for extending grace and believe that if you are saved, God will forgive the adultery. But so many in the church demand this type of grace, but aren't willing to extend it when it doesn't involve THEIR sin.

For instance: We have a deacon in our church who was saved in his late twenties. Prior to that he admittedly had been absorbed in addictions including drug, alcohol, and sexual. He has two children by two different women during that time period. He also declared bankruptcy once and served time in jail. He lived outside the "Bible Belt" and only encountered marginal expressions of the Gospel. During court ordered treatment he encountered a believer who shared the Gospel with him and he was saved. He then got his life on track, finished vocational schooling, got married, and has two children with his wife. He began serving faithfully in a church and has done so at the church where I get to serve when he moved into the area. Would his previous life, before faith in Christ, prohibit him from the diaconate? From pastoring?

If we were talking about him having been married before and she is still alive, in many places in the Bible Belt, yes it would.

The other stuff you mentioned is not a disqualifier when it comes to the deaconate or the pastorate, but marriage is. The other things he could have repented of and made right. He can't make right the admonishment to not be an adulterer if he's still being an adulterer.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I'm going to say that if you divorced someone and they moved on and married someone else that your union with them is effectively ended because of the adultery clause. There is no point in pursuing that tie anymore.
Still, that is a hairy situation. You're remarried and have kids in your remarriage, then years later you get saved, you're then expected to divorce and separate that marriage if your former spouse decided to stay single? I mean, okay, but I can understand this being super debatable.

I simply cannot back down on the abuse thing, though. It isn't about feelings, it's about an abusive union being just as harmful as one where adultery was committed.

 

[evenifigoalone]

What would you suggest happen in the case where one is in a relationship where one spouse has no respect for boundaries of the other, physically or emotionally, and does not intend to change? Spousal rape exists, for example..

Just so it's known, this isn't a rhetorical question. I actually want to know. I want to know what others think as well.