Divorce and Remarriage

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
Unfortunately, BB, such a thing doesn't exist. Therefore, she is an adulterer.

Originally posted by rodh:
Is it enough in your opinion to ask for God's forgiveness and continue with their current spouse...

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
Rod, yes, I believe this is the revealed will of God. Trying to go back and tear things up again only makes things worse.

1 Corinthians 7:20
Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called.

So they are to remain in thier sin of adultery? Are they forgiven or are they an adulterer? They can't be both if the forgiveness is real.

As for Luke 16:18, the book may have been written with the Gentiles in mind, but in the context of the passage Jesus is talking to the Pharisees, you will find that in verse 14.

~Lorelei

 

[Johnv]

The husband is not able to continue to go to the church.

Worse than that, in many cases. My ex left with another dude, took the kids, and I got visitation. When I went to the mall with my youngest daughter who was still small, I was forbidden by the store workers from entering the girl's changing rooms when buying her clothes. I was told I had to go the boys' changing rooms. In the boys' rooms, there were plenty of moms with their boys.

Last month, I was at Sears picking up some undergarments for my oldest (who's now 15). One of the mothers complained to the cashier that I was "inappropriately manhandling" bras in the teen section and asked that I be removed from security. Thankfully, the clerk had seen me before, and informed the woman that I was a customer shopping for my daughter, and that I had every right to do so. This past weekend, I was in a teen girls' shop (the Limited too) buying christmas presents, and had to wait 20 minutes for help, while moms and daughters who came in got helped before me.

However, there's a big consolation. A few years ago, my church, recognizing the need for strengthening the relationship of dads and daughters, started an annual father/daughter dance. It's one of the biggest events annually, with over 300 people attending last year. An acquaintance of mine dreads it, because he has five daughters!!

 

[Johnv]

What right does the Christian have to have a hard heart?

My case was not that of me having a hard heart. It was one of my ex refusing to honor her marital covanent. I fail to see why I would be considered an adulterer if I remarry.

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Originally posted by swordsman:
What is everyones view on the Scriptures stance regarding a person that was divorced and remarried BEFORE salvation, is it under the blood, would it come up at the Judgement Seat of Christ? We know what we were before we were saved, is this done away with as far as God is concerned with the believer being a new creature?
I am not just throwing this out it is relevant to my personal situation.

Remember when Potiphar's wife tried to seduce Joseph? Potiphar was not a Jew, therefore "unsaved," yet God in His Word still called the woman Potiphar's wife.

HCL

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Originally posted by Johnv:
Certainly, in my case, where I not only caught my wife in the act, but she continued the act by moving in with the man while we were still married, that would completely fall within the biblical guidelines for an allowable divorce, wouldn't y'all agree??? I gave her two years to end it and return to her husband, and she failed to do so.

Johnv,
I am truly sorry that she has done this to you and your children. But, my question to you is: Why did you only give her two years? Why not longer?

HCL

 

[LadyEagle]

Haven't read all the posts on this thread.

A good book to read is "Divorce and Remarriage" by Guy Duty. Excellent, provides Biblical answers from a conservative point of view.

Also, a side note: If the adulterer was stoned as happened under Mosaic Law, then the innocent spouse would be free to remarry because that person would be widowed. Too bad adulterers are no longer stoned. It would sure save a lot of holier-than-thou finger-pointing controversy. The innocent party would be able to remarry without any condemnation...no questions asked. However, I imagine there would be someone somewhere who would say it was still the innocent party's fault for the adulterer getting stoned to death. It's called scapegoating or shifting the blame. And no, it doesn't take two to break up a marriage. One can easily do it alone if one makes up one's mind the grass is greener somewhere else.

 

[LadyEagle]

Johnv, that's the pits! Sorry for what you've gone through.

 

[Johnv]

I am truly sorry that she has done this to you and your children. But, my question to you is: Why did you only give her two years? Why not longer?

Two Christmas of me sitting alone by an empty Christmas tree.
Two wedding anniversaries that went unrecognized.
Two years of going to her house to pick up the kids, and having the man who was having sex with her answer the door.
Two years of watching my children go through the most horriffic pain that no one of any age has to go through.
Two years of not doing things like buying a house, car, etc, because I might not need them if we get back together.
Two years of me losing weight, becoming sick, clinically depressed, and in one case, hospitalized?
Two years of her refusing to acknowlege what she had done wrong, and not committing to sin no more.

Oh, did I mention this was the second time she committed adultery?

When it became apparant that me giving her time was simply giving her permission to sin, I decided enough was enough.

[ December 04, 2002, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

John... I understand your predicament. Our church has a Father/Daughter day every year. They also have a Father/Son campout...and a Mother/Daughter tea...but there are no outings designed for Mothers and Sons. So... I just try to make one of my own.

Divorce is an ugly mess...there is no way around that. No wonder God didn't ordain it to be a common practice...it's just terribly painful.

[ December 12, 2002, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by SheEagle911:
Johnv, that's the pits! Sorry for what you've gone through.

Thanks much. It's appreciated. You know what, though? God used the opportunity to strengthen my faith, and get me to more become the person he wanted me to be. Tough situations won't last long, but tough individuals will.

 

[Headcoveredlady]

John V,
Again, I am truly sorry for what your wife has done to you and your children. But, God is bigger than this. You have not given her permission to sin, she has chosen that path. But, I can't believe that she has peace about this. I will pray for her to repent and turn to Jesus.

HCL

 

[Johnv]

I can't believe that she has peace about this. I will pray for her to repent and turn to Jesus.

I do too. I don't hold much bitterness for her these days, and can converse with her amiably. But I also keep my distance from her, so as not to put myself ina position to be hurt by her again. Someday, when she really needs the Lord, I have no doubt he'll be there for her.

Speak of which, I gotta bail for the day. I'm taking one of my kids out so she can buy me a Christmas present that I have to pay for. I sure hope it comes with a diamond tipped blade

[ December 04, 2002, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
Probably because it is very clear from context that there indeed can be an innocent party ( when Jesus speaks of 'the one who divorces his wife because of adultery' and when Paul mentioned those who 'are not bound' to their former spouses anymore) and the biblical understanding that God does not hold people guilty for the sins of another.

Actually, BB, no, it isn't clear. It is assumed. An argument for the "innocent" party is an argument from silence. We all know that is the weakest argument posible.</font>[/QUOTE]So if someone is not explicitly declared to be without sin, then they are assumed guilty?

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Originally posted by WisdomSeeker:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Headcoveredlady:
Remember when Potiphar's wife tried to seduce Joseph? Potiphar was not a Jew, therefore "unsaved," yet God in His Word still called the woman Potiphar's wife.

HCL

What has this to do with anything? Since when do you have to be Jewish to be considered married. She was Potifers wife, so it's only natural that she would be called Potifers wife. I am not sure what point you are making with this statement or what it has to do with the subject of divorce or remarriage since neither took place in this instance.

Divorce is an ugly mess...there is no way around that. No wonder God didn't ordain it to be a common practice...it's just terribly painful.</font>[/QUOTE]I agree with you that divorce is ugly and God said in His Word that He hates it. We ought to hate it too. I hate it, I was a child when my parents divorced. I know all about the suffering that is involved from that standpoint. And I am sure that is awful from the adult's standpoint, as God says, "The two shall be one flesh." I am sure that losing a part of your flesh is not very pleasant.

Anyway, wisdomseeker, I am sorry that you too have been abused and cheated on. You have suffered alot from this.

If you will read the quote above mine in my original post you will see that I am merely answering the question that swordsman asked. He asked if God forgives us for what we did before. And of course He forgives us when we repent, but that does not invalidate a marriage covenant that was made before one's salvation.

The point I was trying to make was that God saw Potiphar and his wife as a married couple even though Potiphar and his wife were not saved. And so did Joseph. Joseph saw that it was a valid marriage so he said, "How could I, when this is my master's wife," (my paraphrase.) So, even though Potiphar was unsaved Joseph knew that God saw them as a married couple.

HCL

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
As far as the "innocent party" theory goes, consider this:

A man goes out and sleeps with a woman other than his wife. His wife finds out about it and divorces him. She marries another man. She took the four kids with her. The original husband has limited visitation rights. This is all his fault and he brought all this upon himself, right?

The church welcomes the new couple and the woman has all kinds of support from other women. They all champion forgiveness and grace and mercy and love. The husband is not able to continue to go to the church.

The woman was truy "innocent" since she did not cheat. I mean, who could blame her?

What you don't know about the above story is that the woman refused to have sex with her husband. She no longer wanted to be married to him. She would not sleep with him under any circumstances. She began reading romance stories to fulfill her own desires. Now, due to her disobedience regarding sex in marriage, Satan was able to create a greater temptation for her husband. He fell, she left. All along, she hoped this would happen.

Now, the "innocent" party champions are left with their mouths open and wondering what they would have done had they only known. The problem is that did not heed the Scriptures. The "innocent" party does not exist.

Yet your theory requires us to assume that the "innocent" party has secretly undermined the marriage. It's an assumption of guilt without evidence. I'd sure hate to be in the position where everyone assumed I had undermined my marriage with only God knowing the truth.

This seems to cut across the fiber of the grace that Christians are supposed to extend to each other. It reminds me of some of Job's friends who accused Job of having some secret sin that caused God to destroy him without cause.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Okay, I see what you mean. I guess it never occured to me that a marriage could be considered invalid because of weather or not the participants in that marriage were saved or not.

I have often wondered if anyone who is taken in marriage is considered married. In the Bible it never said anything about marriage certificates and legalities but who were given in marriage which I would consider any act of joining in the marital bed. I hope I haven't opened up a whole new can of worms...but this is something that I have pondered in the past.

 

[Abiyah]

I have always been of the opinion that remarriage
while another companion lives was wrong. I had
plenty of opportunity to marry men of question-
able pasts while widowed, but I chose to wait
until the right man with the right background
came along. As a result, I have been so blessed
in this 15-year marriage.

BUT . . .

There are those on this board who did marry
while their other spouse lived and who married
people who had living spouses. Wisdom
Seeker, Helen, and many others we could name
will telll you that they believe our Ggod led them
to their spouses, and they feel as blessed as I.
What to do?

Well, I'll tell you what. After much study of the
subject, I still believe as I did, so I must continue
to live by it. But it is not my job to condemn or to
question others who do not read the Scriptures in
the same way.

However, when it comes to sleeping around out-
side of the marriage covenant, THAT IS SIN! Nno
matter how you slice it, it still comes up sin. And
I will go so far as to add that a lot of things
unmarried people do in the name of "love" are sin
and will be judged. Cconfronted with these things,
I am immmoveable and not silent.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:


This seems to cut across the fiber of the grace that Christians are supposed to extend to each other. It reminds me of some of Job's friends who accused Job of having some secret sin that caused God to destroy him without cause.

This is also an arguement that I've heard for the reason behind (pregnancy) miscarriages. It may or may not be true...but it is a very unkind thing to say to another believer nonetheless.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by SheEagle911:
If the adulterer was stoned as happened under Mosaic Law, then the innocent spouse would be free to remarry because that person would be widowed.

Excellent point.

 

[FearNot]

Johnv, man that is hard, you have gone through a lot. I certainly hope you have custody. Children should not be exposed to that blatant disregard for morals and a vowel of marriage.