Daniel David
New Member
I care. I think that might be a black eye to your name now that others know that.Originally posted by Molly:
(Not that any body cares what I think!)
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Divorce and Remarriage
- Thread starter donnA
- Start date
I did address the scriptures you used but you are the one who chooses to ignore this fact.
I don't have a clue where you get the idea that Matthew was dealing with Jews only and Luke Gentiles. Do you base that on the fact of who they were nationally? I don't believe the Bible tells us this. Paul was a Jew but wrote mainly to GEntiles.
The problem is that the interpretation you have come up with and others has caused thousands of women to be killed over hundreds of years. They were so afraid of leaving their abusive battering husbands that they stayed in the marriage and eventually ended up dead. I would not want that on my conscience. You can say that no man should do this but saying it ain't gonna stop it from happening.
There has been those who moved out from the abusive marriage but would not file for divorce because of what some misguided individual told them and ended up dead because the law would not protect her because she was still married to the whacko.
I really don't understand the defensiveness because I said you are hard and harsh. If I am not mistaken you have called not only myself but others worse things then just being hard and harsh.
Your reasoning early when I said the majority believes my way not yours that it does not make it right then I guess if the minority is right then the Onessness believers must be right about the Godhead. They must be right that you have to be filled with the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues. They too have scripture that they interpret but the majority of believers don't agree with them.
I stand by what I believe. A person has the right to divorce and remarry if their spouse commits adultery against them.
I don't have a clue where you get the idea that Matthew was dealing with Jews only and Luke Gentiles. Do you base that on the fact of who they were nationally? I don't believe the Bible tells us this. Paul was a Jew but wrote mainly to GEntiles.
The problem is that the interpretation you have come up with and others has caused thousands of women to be killed over hundreds of years. They were so afraid of leaving their abusive battering husbands that they stayed in the marriage and eventually ended up dead. I would not want that on my conscience. You can say that no man should do this but saying it ain't gonna stop it from happening.
There has been those who moved out from the abusive marriage but would not file for divorce because of what some misguided individual told them and ended up dead because the law would not protect her because she was still married to the whacko.
I really don't understand the defensiveness because I said you are hard and harsh. If I am not mistaken you have called not only myself but others worse things then just being hard and harsh.
Your reasoning early when I said the majority believes my way not yours that it does not make it right then I guess if the minority is right then the Onessness believers must be right about the Godhead. They must be right that you have to be filled with the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues. They too have scripture that they interpret but the majority of believers don't agree with them.
I stand by what I believe. A person has the right to divorce and remarry if their spouse commits adultery against them.
If I understand correctly what PTW is saying, then there is no situation, no matter how horrible it is, to justify remarriage. If you are a believer, and you divorce your mate, you are never allowed to remarry, unless your mate passes away. And if, as a believer, you realize that you have made this huge mistake, and did remarry, then God does forgive you for it. Now that is the tricky part, because when you ask for forgiveness and repent, does that not mean you are to turn away from that sin or wrong, how can a person stop being an adulterer if they stay with the second mate? Unless you mean they are to become celibate in that second marriage?
Sue
Sue
Daniel David
New Member
SueLyn, go back on page 6 of this thread (I think) and see where I tried to answer that question for someone else.
Daniel David
New Member
I do not argue your right to believe whatever you want. I argue the validity of your beliefs.
Also, I never advocate that a person stay in the same home as an abusive spouse. I have said that such a guy needs a beating himself and as far as I am concerned needs to spend time in the slammer.
Further, say a woman leaves her husband who was cheating and starts seeing another guy. The husband then murders the wife and other guy. How often does that happen? If you have Johnnie Cochran as your lawyer, you can get away with it.
If a guy has murder on his mind, nothing will stop him.
Brother PTW, I am not asking for presentation of situations and scenarios, neither do I object to further study of the subject. But I am simply asking what YOU mean when you say it is a one time thing. It sounds like you are saying that it is adultery at one particular moment in time, but that it does not continue to be so. Am I understanding you correctly?
If it is a one time thing that is forgiven, then how can the person still be called an alulterer? In your ealier statement, you said, there is no reason for divorce so the person is automatically committing adultery. You made no effort to find out if that sin was forgiven or not. Why?
If they are forgiven, do you still label them an adulterer?
One page one I quoted Paul, you never responded or discussed it.
On page 3 I had already commented on some of the statements made by Christ.
On page 5 I responded to the verse in Luke. You never responded or discussed it.
If you want a discussion, please actually listen to and read what we say and respond to it. You aren't the only one who has used scripture, you are just the only one refusing to discuss those scirptures in context and outside of the spin you have already given them. Don't demand things from us you refuse to offer in return.
No one here disagrees nor are we saying that divorce should be allowed no matter what. We all think reconciliation is the best, it is what God wants. But sometimes that doesn't happen and it can happen without someone wanting it to. You have to realize that.
Again, you never responded to what Paul has to say later in the letter.
Yes, if we are unmarried he says not to look for a wife, BUT if we do marry, we have not sinned. Adultery is a sin, he could not say that if marrying would make us an adulterer/adulteress.
You can't ignore this verse, these words are clear. WE HAVE NOT SINNED
~Lorelei
Well, I'm gonna be concise. I'm enjoying being single right now, and I do plan on eventually getting married again, when I'm led to the right person. The Lord did not make me to be celibate, that much is certain. I'm not convinced that me planning this in my future violates scripture.
Preach, is this what you are referring to? You say, "I believe", but is there a verse that makes you believe this? Because with any other sin that we commit, after repenting of that sin, we strive to keep that sin out of our daily walks with the Lord. I cannot understand how adultery can be different from murder, theft, lying and the many other sins committed on this earth. It seems almost like you are saying God is giving us the green light to continue in our sin, on this one type of adultery only. I can't see this as an in-between thing, it is a sin to remarry or it is not a sin, one of the two. What you seem to be saying is, it is a sin, only one time, then there after it is no longer considered a sin.
I'm pretty sure this concept does not apply any where else in the Bible, of course, I could be wrong.Sue
Daniel David
New Member
SueLyn, it is found in the 6th post on Page 7.
Feel free to ask anything else. I hope it answers your question.
Feel free to ask anything else. I hope it answers your question.
Wisdom Seeker
New Member
I guess my understanding of the scriptures before this thread haven't been changed one iota by the multitude of subjective theory. So... I'm in the clear as far as having to put a scarlet letter on my chest like Hester Prin. But then my study of the scriptures already proved this.
[ December 12, 2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]
[ December 12, 2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]
Daniel David
New Member
Wisdomseeker and others, I have no quarrel with any of you.
If what I am saying is true, then it would behoove (I love that word) all of us to not encourage remarriage after divorce and to seek creative alternatives for others.
I rejoice in the fact that many of you have sought to please the Lord. I find no fault in that.
If what I am saying is true, then it would behoove (I love that word) all of us to not encourage remarriage after divorce and to seek creative alternatives for others.
I rejoice in the fact that many of you have sought to please the Lord. I find no fault in that.
Daniel David
New Member
No. I have made that point more than once.
Daniel David
New Member
I think this is what you are talking about in regards to what you said about not responding to your response of my post about Luke 16:18.
Someone else, I think hrhema brought up the same objection and I just answered his. I must have missed this one. If you check page 7 or 8, you will find my response to him.
Did you also miss my quesion about Paul's statement that to marry is not sin? I have mentioned that twice now and you have not responded to what you think he meant when he said this.
~Lorelei
[ December 05, 2002, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Lorelei ]
Daniel David
New Member
Lorelei, please give me some time. It took alot of time to post what I did last night about the words of Christ. I did not even get into Paul. I will. To answer you question though, nothing in Paul's writings differ from Christ and he echoes the exact same thing.
SAVED4LIFE
New Member
GOOD FOR YOU JOHNV!!!!! If you ask me, I say you did more than most men would have in your situation. It is my hope and prayer that you find someone who will love you the way you loved your wife.
SAVED4LIFE
Lorelei: PTW has done me the same way. I responded to his scriptures that he gave but because I answered with proof against what he is saying he chooses to ignore this fact and say no one is responding to his leaving scriptures.
Paul did not deal with adultery in I Corinthian 7. You cannot take what Jesus said in Matthew and contrast it with what Paul said in the 7th chapter. Paul was dealing with marriage, marriage between non believer and believer and what to do with the marriage during times of persecution.
The Bible does not say that Matthew was directing his writings to the Jews only and Luke to the Gentiles. This is all supposition.
When God said in the Old TEstament that if a man married, divorced, remarried, divorced again then went back to the first wife that it was an abomination this should stop anyone no matter who from suggesting that a person divorce the second time and go back to the first spouse. Not only that why would anyone think for a minute that the first spouse would be willing to come back. What if they are remarried.
Again Divorce allowance was not just a dispensation for the Jews. The God of Heaven would not have allowed it for Jews under the law then suddenly say it is not acceptable. Jesus was making a point that God never intended for divorce when he created the institution of marriage but God also knew it was going to happen. God did not intend for man to sin but man did.
Paul did not deal with adultery in I Corinthian 7. You cannot take what Jesus said in Matthew and contrast it with what Paul said in the 7th chapter. Paul was dealing with marriage, marriage between non believer and believer and what to do with the marriage during times of persecution.
The Bible does not say that Matthew was directing his writings to the Jews only and Luke to the Gentiles. This is all supposition.
When God said in the Old TEstament that if a man married, divorced, remarried, divorced again then went back to the first wife that it was an abomination this should stop anyone no matter who from suggesting that a person divorce the second time and go back to the first spouse. Not only that why would anyone think for a minute that the first spouse would be willing to come back. What if they are remarried.
Again Divorce allowance was not just a dispensation for the Jews. The God of Heaven would not have allowed it for Jews under the law then suddenly say it is not acceptable. Jesus was making a point that God never intended for divorce when he created the institution of marriage but God also knew it was going to happen. God did not intend for man to sin but man did.
One must be careful about saying "I never would do so and so"
I said that I would never remarry if my first husband died. He died and I did remarry.
I am glad that I didn't keep that promise to myself. I have a wonderful husband.
I cannot say what one should do or not do if they are divorced. I don't think that I would remarry if I were divorced, but I didn't think I would ever remarry. We can't make the decision until we are faced with the situation.
I appreciate all your comments and scriptures. So far only one person in my family has divorced which may be some kind of record in this day and time.
I said that I would never remarry if my first husband died. He died and I did remarry.
I am glad that I didn't keep that promise to myself. I have a wonderful husband.
I cannot say what one should do or not do if they are divorced. I don't think that I would remarry if I were divorced, but I didn't think I would ever remarry. We can't make the decision until we are faced with the situation.
I appreciate all your comments and scriptures. So far only one person in my family has divorced which may be some kind of record in this day and time.