Divorce and Remarriage

[Pastor Larry]

I think we need to be careful with throwing out arguments such as "What the Bible actually teaches." Whether it comes from Helen (whose side I am on) or PTW (whose side I am not), there is a great amount of debate among people who share a great love for God and his word. Where one falls on this matter among the conservative positions is a matter of conclusion, not revelation so to speak. In other words, we must put a number of passages together from Genesis 2 to 1 Cor 7 and draw some conclusions from texts that seem, in some ways, in tension. It is not a matter that God has directly revealed to us.

There are some strong arguments made by those who hold the position of PTW. But there are some great weaknesses. There are also some strong arguments made by those who hold the majority evangelical position (divorce and remarriage for adultery and desertion). But, like above, there are some great weaknesses.

In the bottom line, we need to exercise a bit more charity towards those who disagree. Statements like "what the Bible actually teaches" are not productive, no matter which side they come from.

This debate has raged for years and a few heated comments on the BB will not solve it. I recommend exercising some rhetorical restraint and, if anyone is interested, get to the texts and actually discuss those.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:

Enter the emotions...

Proverbs 6:19 speaks of things that the LORD hate...and one of them is:

He that soweth discord among brethren. Prov. 6:19

I would hope that you will take the appropriate responsibilty for the strife you are stirring up here and refrain from comments like these which are more hurtful and destructive than pertenant.

I am still waiting for you to answer my question for clarification of the comments you made to me previously. Thank You.

 

[FearNot]

From what I have read in Scripture, if a person commits adultry then the partner can divorce and remarry. The original person is an adulterer. If the adulterer remarries a person who was never married, they too become an adulterer, but for the person who was able to divorse because of their adulterous partner they are free and their new husband/wife are as well.

If a person is a believer and their spouse is not, they are to stay married if the mate does not want a divorce, but if they want a divorce they can. But the believer can not seek the divorce. That being said Scripture also says we are not to ajoin our selves to unbelievers, providing we were a believer at the time of marriage.

There is no Scripture, that I have ever seen that permits divorce for any other reason than those two.

 

[Daniel David]

Wisdomseeker, I am presently working on it. I said what I did because this discussion will go nowhere as long as emotions rule instead of truth.

 

[Pastor Larry]

As for innocent parties, I don't think we can make a strong argument that there is no innocent party in the Scriptural discussions of this. In the Christological commentary, there is clearly one party who commits adultery and a party who does not. That makes one innocent and one not (with respect to the issue of adultery). Likewise, in 1 Cor 7, the believer appears very clearly to be an innocent partner if he/she is willing to stay and the unbeliever desires to leave. I will grant that in some cases, there is no true "innocent party."

The question should really not center around whether or not there is an innocent party. Nor should it center around whether or not divorce happens. It should address what is our response to it.

I would say:
1. Divorce is never God's intent for a marriage. It is never the best option for all parties involved.
2. It is sometimes a biblically allowable option, to be used with great discretion and counsel.
3. If divorce has taken place, remarriage may be possible, if the problems have been addressed biblically and avenues of reconciliation have been sought.

I fear sometimes this is a topic where one of two avenues prevail. Either someone is so hardnosed as to insist that there is no such thing as divorce (as some have insisted). Or someone is so loose as to allow and even condone divorce for any number of reasons. Neither is biblical. Divorce does happen and when it does, it ends a marriage. The couple is not still married in teh eyes of God, as some would suggest. What options remain for those two individuals is a matter of debate and will continue to be. Whatever the outcome, they are not second class Christians. They are welcome into full standing in the body of Christ.

 

[RodH]

Thanks for the reply, PreachtheWord. I believe that adultery and abuse are legitimate reasons for divorce, but I respect your difference of opinion. I just wanted to make sure that regardless of our opinions, everyone needs to remember that we are all sinners saved by the grace of God.

I have never been divorced, but my wife was do to her previous husband's adultery. I wanted to make sure even if you believe that remarriage is a sin, you still acnowledged that it can be forgiven without ending another marriage and causing more hurt and pain.

Rod

 

[Daniel David]

Lorelei, I numbered your statements to better answer them. I hope you don't mind.

Originally posted by Lorelei:
1. You later send someone to read a book other than the Bible, whose words were not written by Christ, Peter and Paul.

2. If you are going to take a blanket statement of Christ (out of context) and use it to make women cry by calling them adultresses, then maybe you should cut your tongue out instead.

3. Matthew Chapter 5 wasn't giving us a new law, it was revealing just how impossible it was for us to keep the law.

1. I was recommending a book to BB for further study. He recommended one for me. I thought I was being courteous. I see that he did not take offense. Btw, if you read it, you would see that it is a debate book. All four contributors gave their view and commented on the other views.

2. I like my tongue so I will keep it. As you will see, Jesus directly gave the statement regarding adultery.

Luke 16:18
Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.

Do you see that? Whoever remarries commits adultery. That is exactly what Jesus said. Whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. I guess you could say in a technical sense that Jesus is only addressing men here. That would make the husband the adulterer. However, everyone I know of says that the reciprocal is true of women.

3. Exactly. Jesus said that "divorce" was allowed as a concession under the Mosaic Law but from the beginning it was not so. Now, do you want to live according to the Law or according to God's original order? It was because of a hard heart. It is a concession. Since do not live under the Mosaic Law anymore, the concession is gone. Remember, the Law was given to the entire nation. Even unregenerate Jews had to abide by it. So the concession was given to a mixed society. The Christian is not under the Law and has no right to have a hard heart, ever.

 

[RodH]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
[QBBtw, kudos to Rod for letting us know he is from Arkansas . It takes a real man to reveal that sort of information.

I actually still claim to be an Oklahoman since that is where I spent the first 22 years of my life, but I have been known to call the Hogs (Razorbacks for those not in Arkansas) every now and then.

Rod

 

[Daniel David]

As far as the "innocent party" theory goes, consider this:

A man goes out and sleeps with a woman other than his wife. His wife finds out about it and divorces him. She marries another man. She took the four kids with her. The original husband has limited visitation rights. This is all his fault and he brought all this upon himself, right?

The church welcomes the new couple and the woman has all kinds of support from other women. They all champion forgiveness and grace and mercy and love. The husband is not able to continue to go to the church.

The woman was truy "innocent" since she did not cheat. I mean, who could blame her?

What you don't know about the above story is that the woman refused to have sex with her husband. She no longer wanted to be married to him. She would not sleep with him under any circumstances. She began reading romance stories to fulfill her own desires. Now, due to her disobedience regarding sex in marriage, Satan was able to create a greater temptation for her husband. He fell, she left. All along, she hoped this would happen.

Now, the "innocent" party champions are left with their mouths open and wondering what they would have done had they only known. The problem is that did not heed the Scriptures. The "innocent" party does not exist.

 

[Daniel David]

Matthew 5:31-32
Furthermore it has been said, "Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

The Law said to give a certificate. Remember, the divorce law was a concession for those who lived under the Law. Jesus said there is only one way a divorce could biblically take place - sexual immorality.

The funny thing about the word Jesus chose is that it wasn't adultery. He said sexual immorality. Now, what would the people of his day understood that to mean? In Leviticus 18, you will find the laws of sexual immorality. Remember, Jesus is correctly interpreting the Law here.

Do you live under the Law?

 

[swordsman]

What is everyones view on the Scriptures stance regarding a person that was divorced and remarried BEFORE salvation, is it under the blood, would it come up at the Judgement Seat of Christ? We know what we were before we were saved, is this done away with as far as God is concerned with the believer being a new creature?
I am not just throwing this out it is relevant to my personal situation.

 

[Daniel David]

Matthew 19:3
The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?"

Matthew 19:4-6
And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning "made them male and female,'and said, "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

The pharisees asked if divorce was ever allowed. Jesus responded by saying that God's original plan was one man with one woman for life never to be separated. Jesus responded to them as though they did not know the Bible.

 

[Thankful]

Amen, Pastor Larry.

We pray that PreachtheWord does not experience some of the problems in his marriage that others have. Many times experience will change a person's attitude.

I am "thankful" that I have not experienced the unfaithfulness or abuse of a spouse, but it that's phrase, but for the grace of God....

 

[Daniel David]

Matthew 19:7
They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?"

The pharisees appealled to the Law when Jesus appealled to God. This is the difference between Jesus and the pharisees.

Do you appeal to God or the Law?

 

[Daniel David]

Matthew 19:8-9
He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery."

Divorce was a concession for the hard-hearted. What right does the Christian have to have a hard heart? Remember the story about the unjust servant who would not forgive a little debt even though he was forgiven a great debt? Forgiveness is the Ace in the whole discussion. No Christian has the right to have a hard heart, ever.

Again Jesus reiterates what he previously said. You divorce and remarry, you commit adultery. You marry a divorcee, you commit adultery. Those are the plain words of Christ.

Matthew 19:10
His disciples said to Him, "If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry."

The disciples understood Christ. It would be better to not marry than to divorce and remarry. I fear many do not get the gravity of that statement.

 

[Daniel David]

Luke 16:18
Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.

Pretty cut and dry isn't it? Before you go any further, consider the fact that Luke did not include the "exception clause". Have you ever wondered why? Could it have anything to do with different audiences? Yes it could. The "exception" and "concession" under the Law was for the Jews. Luke was writing to Gentiles. They were never under the Law of Moses.

If you are a gentile and read this, you cannot claim the exception clause or the concession of the Law. That was only for a time. It has been done away with.

 

[Daniel David]

Felluz, this discussion is long and I can only type so much. I posted only what Jesus had to say so far. To continue, I think it would be best to break the discussion up into what each person had to say or something.

However, Paul addressed remarriage in:

Romans 7:2-3
For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

&

1 Corinthians 7:39
A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

I do not have time for more commentary right now. I am going home to see my wife.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Any sin that is committed and repented of will be forgiven by God. ( in answer to Swordsman.)

P.T.W. your portrayal of the woman who forsook the marriage bed as the reason for her husbands adultery doesn't detract from the point that sin is not something that can be justified by someone elses actions. The decision to sin can only be made by the person committing it. It's a choice.

[ December 12, 2002, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by WisdomSeeker:
P.T.W. your portrayal of the woman who forsook the marriage bed as the reason for her husbands adultery doesn't detract from the point that sin is not something that can justified by someone elses actions.

Wisdomseeker, please understand me here, I was not trying to portray you or your husband or anyone else on this board. I was merely giving an example of a situation to demonstrate that what appears to be "innocent" isn't. Also, if any man cheats (I don't care what the reason is), it is his own fault. I was not trying to justify him.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

I understand that your comments were not implied to pertain to my personal circumstances...how could they be.

[ December 12, 2002, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]